I finally got a working X model into the game, but my model appears bright white without any textures at all. All the Hp's work fine along with all the objects appearing where they should be, and I got into the unit a variant of the cvtalon and flew around a bit to see if everything was working. A side from the missing textures the only odd thing I noticed was the hp_trail thingy is right in the middle of my cockpit area...why?
I bypassed any editing in Threed and used notepad to edit the hp entries manually; The X exporter in TS 7.6 adds an extra - plus a number to the end of the object name like, hp_whatever-01 which seems to prevent BZII from reading the name correctly.
The texture information in the X format displays as shown below
Material bodyMaterial_0_0 {
0.501961; 0.250980; 0.000000; 1.000000;;
44.000000;
0.100000; 0.100000; 0.100000;;
0.205804; 0.102902; 0.000000;;
TextureFilename {
"C:\Program Files\Battlezone II\addon\BNG Assets\taloncamo.tga";
}
}
}
}
}
Question: Can I just rename the texture path to that of my addon folder as that's where all my model textures are stored to get the texture where BZII can find and load them on to my model? Tanks, BNG.
QuoteQuestion: Can I just rename the texture path to that of my addon folder as that's where all my model textures are stored to get the texture where BZII can find and load them on to my model? Tanks, BNG.
The path is irrelevant. BZ2 will find it if it just said
TextureFilename {
"taloncamo.tga";
The taloncamo.tga .tga must be in the addon folder or any other referenced by your cfg file.
Whoa! Now I see why I see the trail in the cockpit because the geometry has been flipped like 180 degrees backwards! BZII, read the X model file wrong, but loaded it anyways! I wonder if I rotate the model 180 degrees in TS 7.6 and save it again perhaps that will make it right again...Bump-n-go, here I go again! Woo Hoo what a ride!
Whew! Okay I figured out the backwards geometry problem. The settings in the TS 7.6 X exporter needs to be changed from the default left hand coordinate system to the right handed coordinate system and then saving the model again.
Now if I can just fiqure out the missing texture problem then I can start using X model files and get a way from using Threed altogether. Any suggestions on what I should try?
Geeze! Do you guys know what this could mean for getting animated x models in to the game people?! Eww, slap me somebody I'm drooling all over my self at the mere thought!
Put the texture somewhere bz2 can find it.
I zipped and uploaded my X model to Filefront. Could someone please have a look at the model in the map editor and help me figure out why the silly texture won't appear on my model? The model works perfectly with all the weapons and stuff, but for some unknown reason the texture refuses to appear on it even though it's in my addon folder. I tried a TGA, PNG and BMP file to no avail. Tanks, BNG.
http://files.filefront.com/cvtalon2xzip/;12334996;/fileinfo.html
Geeze, doesn't anybody have clue about why the texture won't appear on an otherwise perfectly working X model? What I was hoping for is some honest feedback guys? What I've discovered so far is that BZII can read, load and manipulate this X format, but why can't it display a simple BMP, TGA, or PNG texture? Would converting the texture to the SI PIC format work? I haven't tried that yet as TS 7.6 doesn't support that format, but I guess I'll try that next unless someone has some other suggestions that might work. BNG.
I opened it in threed, it was not visible.
I opened it in 3dex 1.5 and saved it as its version of .x.
I converted it to xsi with x2xsi.
I opened that in threed, little bits of it were visible.
I selected the body frame, edit and the render backwards option and saved it.
The body it now 2 sided, everything else has the texture (the normals) on the inside...
(http://www.bzcomplex.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10062/bngtalon.png)
Odd.
When I loaded your original model cvtalon2x.x into bz2 its was all brown (the same color as in your texture) the model is not brown.
Its probably due to the .x format you are using, try saving your model as .obj or 3ds, convert to .x with 3dex, and to xsi with x2xsi (it works for me)
BZ2 incompatible texture coordinates?
Wow, so even though BZII can read the geometry, hp's, and everything else the texture information is not compatible with the BZII render engine? Getting the hp's and flame_1 to work required me to load the X file in to notepad and remove the characters at the end of the object file name.
I tried converting the texture to the SI PIC format using Xnview, changing the name in notepad to no avail; PNG and TGA were a-no-go as well. What's really odd is that this X format looks astonishingly similar to the XSI format used by BZII, but the texture related information in the file is all wrong as far as the BZII render engine is concerned. I noticed that in game the model geometry appears translucent, i.e., inside out looking so you see faces on the opposite side of the model parts.
Do you think that if I inverted (flip) the model normals that might fix the issue guys? I have so little modeling knowledge of such things that I don't really understand much more then trying different stuff in a sort of random non sensical method of try it and see what results kind of experimentation. If the normals are oriented in the wrong direction would that mask the textures from being seen on the model geometry?
Cool, flipping the faces in TS 7.6 got rid of the inside out transparent oddity of the model and now it appears with solid geometry; much better looking but still only has a brown color as noted by 2 Sheds and myself. The texture is still not present. Will continue making modifications to see where it leads. BNG. Here's a screeny of the X model with weapons and all minus any texture but with the faces flipped>
(http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/l/lppena/106799/rbggtilqfy.thumb500.jpg)
I'm still stumped by the missing textures but now that the model faces have been flipped; I'm going to try reapplying them again to see what happens?
I think just opening it in 3dex 1.5 and saving it as .x will probably fix the texture problem now, then you might just as well convert it to xsi with x2xsi.
You know you're probably right 2 Sheds, but I have a feeling I'll eventually figure out the texture issue minus conversion to XSI as I'm after a workable X version so eventually I can get some animated models done. The XSI tools we have to work with now suck at making animations in the XSI format.
Threed screws everything up and X2XSI requires the SI_ be added to the AnimationKey entry and doesn't show the texture either. I've tried just about everything I can think of short of converting the TS 7.6 X version using 3DEX; which I'll try next just to see what happens.
Sure wish I knew more about the X version that BZII supposedly supports. BNG.
The 3DEX 1.5 X version sucks. Like Threed it truncates the numerical entries in the file conversion from the TS 7.6 X version. It wouldn't even show the model geometry in the map editor. I also tried adding a top level frame to no avail. I learned that adding this to the MDL exporter in GMAX which also outputs a dual X file when enabled allowed me to work with that X version in Threed a while back.
Back to the drawing board and square one. I'm going to figure out the missing texture issue if it kills me...um well maybe not kills me, but drives me to shear insanity. LOL.
Do you guys suppose that because the TS 7.6 X exporter adds extra characters in the file body that that might cause the BZII engine to ignore the texture information lissted for my model?
Take a sample section from one of my TS 7.6 exported models shown below:
Material cockpitMaterial_4_0 {
0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 1.000000;;
44.000000;
0.100000; 0.100000; 0.100000;;
0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;;
TextureFilename {
"C:\Program Files\Battlezone II\addon\BNG Assets\BLACK512.tga";
}
}
}
}
}
Frame hp_eyepoint-6 {
FrameTransformMatrix {
1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000,
0.000000, 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000,
0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0.000000,
0.003428, 0.681057, 1.370986, 1.000000;;
See how the "Frame hp_eyepoint-6" entry has the extra -6? Well, when I load even a converted XSI file with these extra entries; BZII ignores the hp point especially weapons and they won't function on the model in the map editor until I remove them manually.
So I guess my question would be wouldn't the same apply to the extra charcters added to the material entries as well? I plan to try using the global replace function in Notepad to elimanate the _0 which may or may not be the source of the missing textures on my models. What do you guys think? Has BNG totally lost it, or is he possibly on to something here?
You will certainly have to edit the frame names back to what they are supposed to be.
I don't know about the materials.
mine all come out unnamed like this.
SI_Material {
0.7;0.7;0.7;1;;
0;
0.5;0.5;0.5;;
0;0;0;;
2;
0;0;0;;
SI_Texture2D {
"dalekt00.dxtbz2";
QuoteThe 3DEX 1.5 X version sucks.Like Threed it truncates the numerical entries in the file conversion from the TS 7.6 X version
As far as threed is concerned we now believe this is caused by having a material on the root frame. paste a
Frame dummy {
FrameTransformMatrix {
1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,
0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,
0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,
0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000;;
}
above the top frame. (I did not need to do this when I converted your model!)
I still think your best solution is to make your animated .x process it to .xsi and then cutnpaste the animation from the original .x to the .xsi, modifying it as required.
What I really need is to locate a sample BZII compatible X file to study it's structure in detail; that would go a long way to see what needs to be changed. The TS 7.6 and GSL X version come real close, but no cigar just yet. You guys do me a small favor and let me know if you come across such a file, and I'll use it to figure out how to get animated X models in to BZII, and post that information for other modelers to use as well.
Awesome, tanks DX, I guess there the ones in the BZII demo right?
DX, what demo assets? I DL'ed the BZII demo, but it had no models and the data.pak file is inaccessible for some strange reason. BNNG.
Use this with that PAK file: http://www.bzscrap.com/downloads/Utilities/unpakbzd.zip (http://www.bzscrap.com/downloads/Utilities/unpakbzd.zip)
Tanks, BBB I got it and checked out the read me file. Looks like it needs to be unzipped to its own directory. Really appreciate your assit. BNG.
Wow! The X files in the BZII demo datapak do use a template header; unlike the X version exported by both GSL and TS 7.6. I created a new folder under addon/BNG Assets/New Folder and extracted the contents of the datapak there. Now comes the fun task of deciding what next to do to try to replicate the BZII X file samples into something doable.
I may have to start using the XNA X exporter that TS 7.6 uses as apposed to the TS 6 X exporter that I was using which basically read the geometry, but not the Texture entries. Very cool guys! Tanks again, BNG. Hi Ho Hi Ho it's off to work I go...Na...NA...Na...NA....
The template header in the BZII X version was a real eyeopener, but didn't really yield any better results with showing the texture on the model. To get the model to load into the game required me to manually cut and paste the header } 1;0;1; section below the template header entries; otherwise the map editor would crash and not generate a MSH file. Once moved though the file loaded just fine minus any texture on the cube model I made using a single texture and cube object.
The template header was generated by 3DEX 1.5 and surprising enough precisely matches that of the one used in the BZII Demo X files I found after extracting it's datapak into the directory I created for it in my Battlezone II root directory. Word of caution: Don't ever extract the contents to the addon folder as this will cause an out memory AV when you run the map editor or the game itself; found this one out the hard way, and moved the folder outside the addon folder afterwords.
Oh, for you peeps that want to use GMAX to try the same thing then get the MDL/Commander exporter used by Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 as it simultaneously exports an X file along with the MDL version from GMAX. I won't get into the details about it as quite a few steps/modifications are required to use the X file thingy, and in my opinion is basically a waste of time.
Anyways, here's a screen shot of a GMAX created X file converted using 3DEX 1.5 to add the template header. Still need to figure out why there's still no texture and as you can see from a view generated by the site camera the cube is half buried in the surrounding terrain; I wonder why it's doing this as the cube was set correctly in both TS 7.6 and GMAX? Again, any feedback from other modelers would very much be appreciated. BNG.
(http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/l/lppena/106799/mfwquptvgm.thumb500.jpg)
Why is it that BZII can display a material color on each of my model objects, but not a texture? For example, I removed the camo texture from my cube object and replaced it with a plain white material from the material editor. Then I created a second smaller cube, glued it under the larger cube and applied a plain black material to the smaller cube and saved the model as X and saved it. When I place the model in the map editor both the white and black materials appear just fine.
So I guess my question would be why will a non-texture material appear, but not an applied texture? I guess until I figure it all out I'll try using colors from the material editor to paint my X models, and attempt to use different color and reflectance shaders in the mean time. I'll prepare such an X model and post a screeny to see what you all think. BNG.
I say again your texture/UV coordinates aren't being read by BZ2.
I sort of finished an X model using just material colors on each of the model object: 2 red stars, 2 green sevens, light blue body, dark blue engines, 2 red engine intakes, black cockpit, and a dark Grey sun diffuser in front of the cockpit. It looks pretty clean in the map editor though. Still need to tweak the flame_1 and 2 as they point sideways; probably need to rotate these 2 objects to point backward to get the orientation right. Oh, I had to flip all the faces on the model and export using the right hand coordinate system to get the model to fly forward as otherwise it flies backward.
I'm wondering now if I can apply some other material editor effects to like maybe apply some different shader reflectance effects. Don't really know yet whats possible, but hey I'm really surprised that I even got this far...now if I can only grasp the concepts behind making a animated X model like the dreaded ISDF Walker. Here's a screeny of the model with only material colors but no actual textures.
(http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/l/lppena/106799/wxzuouijdh.thumb500.jpg)
Yes, I know N1. I've tried every trick I can think of to get the textures to appear. What else can I try? I don't have clue only questions. Even the BZII demo X file models load without textures, so I'm at a loss if even BZII can't read it's own version of X. BNG
The demo's assets are outdated, but that is peculiar.
The conclusions that I've drawn so far are these:
1. Truespace 7.6, supports an X version that BZII likes as far as the (model) geometry portion, but can't read the texture section at all. It can, however, read the material color information making it usable with BZII in terms of basic coloring of models for use in the game itself.
2. Notepad, a simple text editor can be used to edit the text based X files created by TS 7.6 to edit down the file in terms of the making the hp_, cockpit, flame_, tread_, tractor_, points usable for the BZII engine to read them correctly.
3. The model faces need to be flipped prior to exporting the model from TS 7.6 when saving models in the X format. Otherwise, the model faces will appear inside out and look quite odd.
4. The default exporter settings need to be changed to the right hand coordinate system to get the model geometry oriented correctly for the BZII engine. Otherwise, the model spawns backward in the game when it's loaded.
5. Animated (as yet untested) models theoretically are possible to anyone able to figure out how they must be put together and key framed properly.
6. As briefly mentioned above only untextured material colors are supported by this X format. However, a multitude of colors are possible using only materials. Each object is limited to a single material color per object, although multiple colors may be supported as TS 7.6 supports adding multiple layers using the material editor as well as a vast array shaders like bump mapping, and reflectance shaders.
7. Novice modelers should use TS 7.6 as the only other tool required to easily make BZII models is MS Notepad. I have used it for several years now, and my level of modeling knowledge with 3d applications prior to BZII was did-a-lee-squat. It's simple to learn and gets the job done.
8. The primary reason I wanted an alternate to the existing BZII XSI format is that this particular format is no longer supported by Softimage, and the free XSI modeling tools currently available are really pretty suckish to say the least. Animation, is not supported and modelers have found it necessary to use alternative methods. Just a little food for thought. BNG.
So see if you can animate a .x model and get it working in bz2.
If that works, then go back to the original .x and convert it to an xsi, now the textures will work.
Then cutnpaste the animations from the animated version to the texture version and you should have a fully textured and animated .xsi model.
That's one of my goals MTS. Unfortunately, other then getting basic movements to work I haven't really grasp the whole animation thingy in TS 7.6, or animation in general for that matter. I'm still grappling with the texture thingy. My focus will eventually turn to animation stuff now that I can get X models into BZII.
I want to get totally away from using Threed other then maybe for use as an XSI viewer; same deal with 3DEX. You're notepad cut and paste method really intrigues me as a relatively simple way to make animated XSI models.
I still plan to pursue the mythical BZII compatible X format as a viable alternative to simplifying the modeling process. It appears that I'm the only BZII modeler using the X approach, so the going is going to be slow, and laborious.
Hopefully enough other modelers will assist in this little project to figure out a better alternative then the current outdated half-ass methods being pushed by the BZII modeling community. Nothing personal, but there just has to be a better way to model for BZII. BNG
Sure, buy a certain specific old copy of Softimage 3D. It is the only thing capable of *everything* BZ2 supports. :P
(http://www.overminddl1.com/image_scripts/image_sig.php?type=ODL1signitures&image/sig.gif)
Generated by OvermindDL1's Signature Auto-Add Script (http://overminddl1.com) that OvermindDL1 did manually since Greasemonkey does not work in Firefox 3.1 yet...
Quote from: OvermindDL1 on November 21, 2008, 07:07:03 PM
Sure, buy a certain specific old copy of Softimage 3D. It is the only thing capable of *everything* BZ2 supports. :P
That or learn a lot of notepad!
I have near everything, I just have to associate my bones with vertexes in notepad, but the rest is done in max.
Quote from: Nielk1 on November 21, 2008, 09:38:41 PM
I have near everything, I just have to associate my bones with vertexes in notepad, but the rest is done in max.
Yeah... thanks to me. :-P
Finding an old copy of SI 3D is like looking for a needle in a hay stack; let alone being able to actually buy it. Gimme a break peeps. One or two viable options existed before; now there's another option using X models, and yes it too is a half-ass alternative. Add it to the other alternatives and what do you have? Just another means to an end as I see it. BNG. PS: It's always good to have a spirited discussion and hopefully a bit of collaborative cooperation to see where it all leads right? Quick! Somebody slap me before my head gets all big an puffy! LOL.
TS 3.2 supports the same X template header as BZII, and the header 1 0 1 is in the right place too. I'm still working the texture thingy though. The DX formats seems pretty inconsistent as I've notice numerous variants over the last couple of years. BNG.
Update: the TS 3.2 version has extra template entries making it unviewable in 3DEX 1.5. BNG.