OK then. This may not be a good idea, and if you globmods want to, feel free to take it down. And please don't shout at me as you do so :P
In a recent conversation with TopGun and ZeroAngel (and a couple of others) about FE/1.2 games, we started discussing exploits... I thought that since a good few here (like me) are 1.3 only players who rarely venture into 1.2, it would be useful to have a library of these exploits for when we do venture out into 1.2 to avoid us getting completely smashed by the dreaded 1.2 vets.
I know none of these exploits, so anybody who does, please tell us.
EDIT: I think a couple of guys misunderstood... this is do we know what is going on so we don't fall for it as easily. Valid counter tactics would be nice, but I don't think that's allowed :P
no one is
Not many people are stupid enough to post that kind of thing on a public forum for all to view.
And i'm 100% sure the admins here wouldn't allow it anyway.
I know one, give me a pummel scout and then exploit me. I'll get the job done!
I can name a few exploits:
MP Editing - Only allowed if game is clearly marked
Turrets in buildings - NEVER ALLOWED
Changing weapons to anything - NEVER ALLOWED
Turret Humping - (allowed annoyingly)
Flying/Hovering - (allowed but nearly makes the game all FPS and no RTS)
Ghosting - That is creating unstable velocities and using other factors of lagging to ensure you are nearly unhittable.
I think anyone should know about the ones above to know what to look out for. Other than these, things like AVs just don't need to be known.
With me its my mouse. Like I said in the other topic. My mouse goes off and on. Its still there and plugged in but the game detects it off and on very rapidly.
Now if we can get a 1.3 meeting to play on that version that would be great. Because I have had almost no problems with it now that I have the right patch for it.
Yep, Neilk1 pretty much listed most of them
Well there is also:
Human Mortar Bikes -- too warpy and hard to hit -- never allowed
Multi Bombing -- causes bomber to drop bomb on two different targets -- never allowed
Human player can join CPU team in an MPI -- rarely ever allowed
Killing buildings from inside -- considered unfair and never allowed. Though some players want to kill a building so bad they will 'bend' this rule. There are ways to counter this in some cases, but its still considered lame.
Aside from ghosting, hovering, and turret humping, most of these exploits never see usage especially in a vet game -- because people who use them would get banned. Its one of the reasons why 'vet strats' require known nicks only.
Quote from: AHadley on March 04, 2009, 07:00:05 PM
. I thought that since a good few here (like me) are 1.3 only players who rarely venture into 1.2, it would be useful to have a library of these exploits for when we do venture out into 1.2 to avoid us getting completely smashed by the dreaded 1.2 vets.
They smash you because they've been playing every night for 9 years, not because of cheats.
QuoteFlying/Hovering - (allowed but nearly makes the game all FPS and no RTS)
Oh man, you obviously werent in that last scion vs. ISDF game I played. Those typically become stalemated dogfight-wise since warriors are hard to kill and ISDF can rebuild tanks quickly. I gave my lead wingman several titans, gauss turrets and service trucks while I spire walked to one edge of the map and had 3 upgraded pools going on. The enemy team was using serviced turret and rocket tank emplacements to try and advance on my base while my team was trying to repeatedly bust the emplacements by ranging them with arc and sometimes blinking in and doing kamikaze attacks to damage things then blink out. We eventually managed to bust their front line emplacements to the northeast at the cost of my gunspires and upgraded pools to the southwest. They rec rushed us and killed our rec but I had 4 pools, enough to make spires around it and we unleashed our final desperation attack when I dropped quill for my thugs and we sent the titans and gauss rats into their base while dropping their rec and fac with quill/fang -- winning the game.
Scion vs ISDF late game is typically more like a combination of FPS and RTS. Whereas ISDF vs ISDF late game is mostly FPS since the games typically end with one team gaining the upper hand in dogfighting, and mortaring a base to death with blast tanks. Though ISDF teams have been known to employ serviced PL-Stab/MDM assault tanks as well as turret emplacements to help with a final assault.
Its only versus extremely weak teams can we finish a base with chain scouts. Vet strats now use a picking system which attempts to balance the skill level of the teams so that theres not a huge difference in skill between the teams.
Quote from: AcneVulgaris on March 04, 2009, 08:26:58 PM
They smash you because they've been playing every night for 9 years, not because of cheats.
For the record, I have been playing for 9 years and used to hold my own very well, but I hate the exploits and once we got to the point were I refused to use them, I got destroyed.
Quote from: General BlackDragon on March 04, 2009, 07:13:45 PM
no one is
Not many people are stupid enough to post that kind of thing on a public forum for all to view.
And i'm 100% sure the admins here wouldn't allow it anyway.
To be honest, I know very little of the goings-on between 1.2 and 1.3-ers... I'm not intending to cause trouble, and if anybody feels this is causing trouble, I am perfectly happy for it to be locked or deleted as admins see fit.
It wont be long before you will see some foolish 1.2 vet show up and try to justify the 1.2 exploits, and a flamewar starts.
My advice is to delete this topic. Sorry AHadley.
(EDITED FOR SPELLING AND CLARITY).
It WILL be long before my mod is out and you see all the players move to public beta anyway... i service truck you not.
joining the CPU team in MPI sounds fun!
Quote from: TheJamsh on March 04, 2009, 11:12:40 PM
It WILL be long before my mod is out and you see all the players move to public beta anyway... i service truck you not.
Get over yourself. :lol:
I just noticed your edit about suggesting counter tactics. Vet teams often use the following tactics to counter the following:
Turret Humping
Since humping a turret allows one to continuously stay outside of its firing zone, most people use another turret to counter this exploit. Placing turrets no further than 140m apart will prevent a single turret from being humped -- as they will both cover each other.
Hovering
Hovering/Flying is a technique often used to hit turrets or base buildings without being hit back. ZST and FE maps (not stock 1.2 maps) have advanced AI for turrets and gunspires which make them very difficult to hover kill, so much that the skill needs to be perfected quite a bit in order to work well. Guntowers are effective for shooting down people who attempt to hover kill bases, and so are rocket tanks. Most vets can't even outmaneuver a guntower in the air which is why this method is so effective.
Ghosting
Vets often move in a way that to a newbie they would seem totally unhittable. In fact ghosting is a technique used to make your ship fly faster in one direction, often used by using multiple thrusters at once. The best ways to counter ghosting in 1.2 is to first of all have a low multiworld frequency set, and secondly to use the 't' key to target ships that you're fighting. Targeted ships will almost be unable to ghost since they are tracked much better by the netcode than untargeted ones. Generally though, if you're fighting an enemy and he escapes outside of the range of your guns then its best not to pursue. An escaping ship can fly faster than a chasing one since the escaper can nose down completely and gradually outrun his pursuer.
Killing the recycler from inside / Rec Rushing
This is simple, simply place a turret at the very back of the recycler, it will destroy any ships which enter its doorway.
As far as rec rushing goes, its a tactic used to take a recycler down very quickly. Most commanders these days will use a 'pummel rush' which involves making several cheap empty scouts and arming them with pummel powerups. Four pummel scouts can take down a recycler very quickly -- but the tactic is risky because if it fails then the rushing team has not only wasted a lot of time not hitting pools or controlling the field, but has also 'dropped' a over a hundred points of loose scrap in the enemy base which can be collected by their scavengers and used to quickly rebuild. As well as since service trucks recycle for 40 scrap, any trucks built to heal the rec after a rush can be recy'd and used as a quick scrap boost for the defending team to build a bomber bay, tech center, blast tanks, or assault units.
As to countering rec rushes go -- most commanders who are concerned about getting rec rushed will utilize the standard '3 rat defence', which involve placing defenses (often turrets) in a triangular formation at the front left of the rec, front right, and back. Any unit which tries to rush the recycler will not be able to find blind spots and will be destroyed quickly. Often if a team is rushing your recycler the best thing you can do is to defend it and build several service trucks to heal the recycler quickly and counter the possibility that the enemy might do a follow-up attack to finish off the rec.
The pummel rush is probably one of the most fun things about the game....it's usually done when you're losing, and works when your opponent has spent too little on defense. The period of time between the decision to pum rush and the result is really suspenseful, and trying to find a safe spot to snuggle up to the rec is a veritable panic.
Quote from: Zero Angel on March 04, 2009, 11:35:02 PM
Turret Humping
Since humping a turret allows one to continuously stay outside of its firing zone, most people use another turret to counter this exploit. Placing turrets no further than 140m apart will prevent a single turret from being humped -- as they will both cover each other.
Turret Humping just pisses me off. And I had someone do it and get INSIDE the collision box so the other 2/3 turrets were hitting the first one instead of the guy. GOD I HATE THAT. Why I don't touch 1.2 anymore.
Quote from: AcneVulgaris on March 04, 2009, 11:57:44 PM
The pummel rush is probably one of the most fun things about the game....it's usually done when you're losing, and works when your opponent has spent too little on defense. The period of time between the decision to pum rush and the result is really suspenseful, and trying to find a safe spot to snuggle up to the rec is a veritable panic.
Yea when i'm commanding and realize that i'm getting pumm rushed my HOLYCRAP-O-METER goes to 11. Whether you're on the rushing or getting rushed end of a pummel rush, your adrenaline is going nuts because pummel rushes are so fast and brutal. The rushing team tries their absolute hardest to rapidly squeeze out as much damage as possible (countless rushes have failed when the rec was at less than 5% health). Someone should make a FRAPS video of their recycler getting rec rushed. It really is quite intense.
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 05, 2009, 12:06:16 AM
Turret Humping just pisses me off. And I had someone do it and get INSIDE the collision box so the other 2/3 turrets were hitting the first one instead of the guy. GOD I HATE THAT. Why I don't touch 1.2 anymore.
That's odd, i've never seen someone go inside of the collision sphere of a turret. Its possible for 1/3 of their ship to go inside of one but that still leaves plenty of hittable area. Also turrets shooting at each other isnt a problem since AI units cannot damage each other by means of friendly fire.
Quote from: Zero Angel on March 05, 2009, 12:13:15 AM
That's odd, i've never seen someone go inside of the collision sphere of a turret. Its possible for 1/3 of their ship to go inside of one but that still leaves plenty of hittable area. Also turrets shooting at each other isnt a problem since AI units cannot damage each other by means of friendly fire.
I know they don't hurt each other, but if they do 0 damage to the enemy, its just as bad.
--
The other thing I don't like is what flying has done to the game now that it is used as it is. Watch the youtube videos, its 2 ppl dog fighting the whole damn game. If they ever manage to get a full base everything has 2 health, there is no scrap, and all the scavs are dead because the opponent just flew over everything and blasted it to hell.
Flying makes BZ2 like another generic FPS. What do you do? You jump around like a maniac shooting the other person fighting for control points (pools) placing auto defenses (turrets and scouts) defending your key end all home base item (Recycler). Literally HUNDREDS of games like that.
Where is the RTS?
Where are the flanking?
Where are the pincer movements?
WHERE IS THE THINKING?!
Hah, BZ2 is far from a generic FPS -- flying or not. I have to use my brains very much while playing BZ2. When your commanding its all about insight, you have to know everything thats happening on the field and develop strategies to counter any problems that arise and any contingencies.
That video you saw was probably that 1v1 battle of Sly vs BB. Those two guys went for a 'no defense' strategy in which they both teched up as fast as possible and hit each others bases as hard as possible. Thats not representative of anything but that particular match and their playing styles (they both have a highly offensive playing style). I think though that BB was sending turrets to nav points while hitting bases. That guy does an amazing job at using feints and misdirection on the 1v1's i've played with him.
As far as flanking and pincer attacks go, the entire battlefield is more mobile and changable than that since each player is such a dynamic entity. In the match I mentioned previously on this thread our team focused attack on one emplacement enabling the enemy team to use our distraction to take another key sector of the field (2 upgraded pools) seconds before attempting to finish us off with a pummel rush. In fact my lead wingman was asking for assault units so he could concentrate them on the front line offense to the northeast, while I directed the defensive strategy to the southwest.
In a 4v4 the human players are key to victory or defeat since they possess unique personalities and playing styles, yet the commander is still the most important member of the team since he directs their overall goals and enables them to perform well, as well he directs the defensive and building strategy. The strategy here is not like one which you'd utilize in a turn based strategy or even a full-on RTS but it is more dynamic and fast changing than that -- you may not be able to control the nature of your team as much as you would a generic AI unit, but still you must take their dispositions into account and use them to your advantage wherever possible.
Just a comment but would the Chat String Crash be considered an exploit of sorts? I don't think there is really any defense other than recording the IP of the suspected player and keeping them out of your games. But I think its worth mentioning as you can have a few individuals who aren't happy with the game so they just crash it.
Lol BBB. yes i am a little full of it...
This is why im glad i didn't hit the multi-button ever in 1.2... Even so, i still wish i had experience of some of these games that ZA has been in.
First off, I really have to admit that ZA has to be the most inspiring 1.2 player that I have ever known. :-D
At the topic on hand though; my 1.2 MP time was severely limited and I was never really any good at it, although the few games that I had played with ZA, TV, and the RIP guys had to be some of the most intense multiplayer I have ever experience in any game, period. (Although I do have to admit I have been finding some games that do apply a similar rush in a not so similar fashion these days) A lot of people on this forum in particular frown on a lot of how 1.2 MP is played, but in the end without those completely grotesque exploits present in 1.2 (Those of which that have been motioned as strictly prohibited in games) the classic 1.2 vet strat is a completely different field of BZ2 gameplay in its own.
I find myself coming back to BZ2 now and then to have some fun here and there and while the general way of play in an IA or MPI is fun and nostalgic I find myself quiting before I finish the game out of boredom, by the time a few attacks have gone by and I've maxed out the tech tree it just doesn't feel like there is much more left to enjoy. 1v1 doesn't really peak my interest too much either, it just doesn't have the feel of a full on 4v4 ST match.
Personally in a full team strat game I feel like the rush is absolutely incredible. It still retains most of the common gameplay although there are bounds where certain things will just not fly. Alot of overly complex strategies involving alot of AI units tend to not work well since you have 4 human players on the opposing faction that can easily hinder your well thought out as well as expensive plan. Decisions have to be made promptly and carefully as commander, and being able to adapt to the situation correctly will make or break victory for your team.
Meanwhile playing as a thug is nothing short of a constant rush; You yourself are able to tip the battle in such a manner that you can become a massive force of destruction and harassment for the opposition or an ultimate hindrance for your team. Your teammates are no exception to the rule either, and it is critical to be able to be decisive in when to assist them and when you alone can be the best support for your team. The Synergy that can be created in a team strategy match is absolutely amazing and irreplaceable.
In some cases it very well can be seen that some 1.2 exploits turn BZ2 into just a generic shooter game, but IMHO it depends on the situation and the game played. As far as 4v4 goes, generic shooter is probably one of the last things I would describe it as. Once you have 8 human players factored into the two teams it creates a battlefield where something conventional that may work out in your 1v1 or your MPI just won't serve its purpose. As a player in a 4v4 you have to use different tactics and strategies to overcome the addition of the other players. When all of these things come together and are played out correctly I think that is personally when BZ2 MP shines at its brightest. IMO its probably why these days the 'vet strat' game is such a closely guarded s...(Completely inside joke for Sonic here) 'ritual' so to say. It can be such a rare encounter to have a game that runs with the synergy that really puts the game at its full potential that preservation of a 4v4 with equally skilled players and balanced teams can become critical.
Mind you I haven't played a team strat in well over 4 or 5 years now, but when it comes to BZ things mostly tend not to change. :P
Just my 2 cents. ;)
Quote from: Tempest Storm on March 05, 2009, 10:17:55 AM
but in the end without those completely grotesque exploits present in 1.2 (Those of which that have been motioned as strictly prohibited in games)
What the hell? If they can't use the exploits then why do they still play 1.2?
1.3 is far less buggy in MP.
I'm talking about the previously mentioned exploits such as:
QuoteTurrets in buildings - NEVER ALLOWED
Changing weapons to anything - NEVER ALLOWED
Human Mortar Bikes -- too warpy and hard to hit -- never allowed
Multi Bombing -- causes bomber to drop bomb on two different targets -- never allowed
etc. and so forth
Generally the reason why when you want to have a good game, you don't just pull some guy off of the side of the road and have him join up. :P
Sure 1.3 is alot less buggy in MP, but it lacks the playerbase currently to support the kind of games that I have found most fun when playing 1.2. 1.3 is alot of fun to play and I have found a few games here and there but its generally discouraging to see a locked game with only two people in it or a few MPIs and FFA STs up in the game list.
I suppose however, that it follows the same idea I mentioned in my previous post. BZ2 players tend to enjoy differing gamemodes and will lock their games most of the time to ensure that their gamemode of choice isn't ruined by some random jerk, in the same way that vets will play games with known players to avoid those that wish to ruin those games.
Honestly, what difference does it make aside from a matter of preference as to which version you play when you play in a controled environment?
I find it utterly disrespectful to the 1.3 patch makers who have dedicated a downright astonishing amount of time to the project, seeing people only playing 1.2 just because they enjoy screwing around with old bugs. The 1.2 community is a group of hackers and cheaters. And I will not back down from that claim regardless of how people try to justify them.
I enjoy a good match too. But only with the purity of play which is 1.3. :)
Quote from: Sonic on March 05, 2009, 04:07:37 AM
Just a comment but would the Chat String Crash be considered an exploit of sorts? I don't think there is really any defense other than recording the IP of the suspected player and keeping them out of your games. But I think its worth mentioning as you can have a few individuals who aren't happy with the game so they just crash it.
I am 99% a MPI Commander, I love mpi, mostly G66. The 1.2 G66 is very fun and makes for a great game, but with regard to what Sonic is talking about, the av bug is the single main reason why I don't like to play 1.2 G66 anymore. Because people who are looking for me to put up a strat instead of a mpi will av the game, this happens so much it is really annoying. I could really rant about this, but it'll probably come down to maturity. Everytime someone comes into one of my mpi's and just sits there, I know what they are doing. They're activating the av bug. I'm usually busy and don't notice them inactive, but I have sometimes kicked people for just sitting there. Which inturn causes them to come back another time and av me. The whole thing is messed up cause I really like the G66 maps. We play them with the internet off over lan, but that's it.
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 05, 2009, 11:38:04 AM
I find it utterly disrespectful to the 1.3 patch makers who have dedicated a downright astonishing amount of time to the project, seeing people only playing 1.2 just because they enjoy screwing around with old bugs. The 1.2 community is a group of hackers and cheaters. And I will not back down from that claim regardless of how people try to justify them.
I enjoy a good match too. But only with the purity of play which is 1.3. :)
You're entitled to your own opinion. It's not going to change anything though, because people will still do the things they enjoy.
And as far as AVing goes, it happens once in awhile. I have 3 IP ranges banned on my router because these people have AV'd my server. I doubt that i'll be unbanning them at any time since these people are known trouble makers in the 1.2 community.
I think a 1.2B version would be good, something that just fixes that damned chatline crash that seemingly everyone but me knows...
I knew nothing about any of these exploits, much less how to use them :lol:
I began the topic out of sheer confusion...
QuoteThe 1.2 community is a group of hackers and cheaters.
No they are not. I don't think I have ever played a game where a bunch of unwritten rules were followed with greater care.(by most anyway)
1.2 is where the most dedicated (obsessed?) players of the strat game currently hold their ground and play the game they as they wish to. Personally I cant play it anymore, its warpiness, and poor performance make 1.3* seem like I have been born again into a bright new world. I hope at some point that they will move over, I miss those intense games, but not the maddening exploits.
I would like to see the 1.3 turret made less humpable.
Quote from: TopGun on March 04, 2009, 07:58:01 PM
With me its my mouse. Like I said in the other topic. My mouse goes off and on. Its still there and plugged in but the game detects it off and on very rapidly.
Now if we can get a 1.3 meeting to play on that version that would be great. Because I have had almost no problems with it now that I have the right patch for it.
Certain viruses can cause that or problems with pc.
Quote from: mrtwosheds on March 05, 2009, 09:02:53 PM
No they are not. I don't think I have ever played a game where a bunch of unwritten rules were followed with greater care.(by most anyway)
1.2 is where the most dedicated (obsessed?) players of the strat game currently hold their ground and play the game they as they wish to. Personally I cant play it anymore, its warpiness, and poor performance make 1.3* seem like I have been born again into a bright new world. I hope at some point that they will move over, I miss those intense games, but not the maddening exploits.
I would like to see the 1.3 turret made less humpable.
Wow MTS, I thought you hated 1.2. :-)
I sort of like how the defensive balance is right now. Its tough commanding a game where all you have is rats and your base is getting raped by chain scouts -- but its still perfectly possible to come back from that. The idea to use here is use loose scrap to your advantage, since each turret you build drops scrap when it is destroyed -- as well as enemies hitting your base drop scrap when they are destroyed. Lets say an enemy team is assaulting your base for 5 long minutes and every rat you make gets destroyed, and the enemy loses every third ship during their base attacks. You're can still profit from the situation if your wingmen are working the field and keeping the enemy suppressed to 1 or 2 pools, and since they're limited to 1 or 2 pools they have to survive on green scrap (which is 1 every 3 seconds) -- and because since everything is dying and dropping scrap at your base -- by the time a few minutes has passed you are starting to see profit from all of the dead things in your base and can quickly build fac+arm and go on the offensive. Many commanders get demoralized in situations like this, but i've come back from some pretty bad base rapage games -- if you make the defenses too strong then this no longer becomes a valid gameplay dynamic since nobody will ever hit bases. A little stronger balance towards defenses would be nice, but if defensive strength is increased AFTER you take into account the fact that hovering is not allowed any more, then that eliminates that gameplay choice and some of the fast paced nature is taken from the game, and hence fun (depending on how you look at it)
Yes ZA, we all know how fun cheating in otherwise perfectly legit games can be. Don't you just love ruining the game completely? Fun isn't it. I personally love seeing miserable people with nothing better to do than cheat and hack their way past your defences to destroy your recycler while floating in mid-air where you can't shoot them. [\sarcasm]
Wow, you really are an egocentric (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=egocentric) little kid arent you? I really am not upset, its just an observation i'm making.
Yes. That is exactly what I am, when I am aggravated.
Nonetheless, I wont turn this into a flame battle as you obviously just tried to.
You see that this is what happens every single time we compare 1.2 and 1.3.
If we had half a braincell between us we would have by now realised that this issue can never be solved and that we should never, ever, EVER even consider bringing it up.
We all know that 1.2 is full of easily exploited glitches, and that 1.3 has ironed them out. That is all there should be to it.
Anything else we add to this subject causes unnecessary anger and frustration on both sides of this pointless fight.
I accept that you consider the flying bug to be a skill, and a fun one to do in a game (I FIND IT FUN!)... but that is irrelevant in the end. It is still a glitch. It has been fixed.
If you use an outdated patch to exploit its bugs... you are simply cheating.
game.cheat bzflying
I don't like how flying was stopped, but I don't like it either so...
BBB is a bit... passionate.
QuoteWow MTS, I thought you hated 1.2.
No, I played 1.2 strat for ages... I hate having to jump in and out of the recy to get cheapy chains for my thugs, I hate early game rec hovering and I hate the warping scouts, all of these exploits reduce the players enjoyment and the viability of the strat game.
I hope that we get 1.3/4 developed to a point were even those notorious vets choose it over 1.2.
Flying,s gone, Map specific gravity is in!!!
Recycler variants can provide an huge range of modified and new units to customise the game to our liking.
QuoteIf you use an outdated patch to exploit its bugs... you are simply cheating.
No, they are just playing the game they are used to. Cheating is where one side fails to follow the rules observed by the other.
The problem with 1.2 Vetstrat now is that the skill level needed to command competatively are way beyond what most people can or want to give. I stopped playing it mostly because I got fed up with waiting ages for someone to take command of the other team before the game had even started...
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 04, 2009, 10:42:25 PM
It wont be long before you will see some foolish 1.2 vet show up and try to justify the 1.2 exploits, and a flamewar starts.
My advice is to delete this topic. Sorry AHadley.
(EDITED FOR SPELLING AND CLARITY).
Isnt it ironic that you post about foolish vets starting up a flamewar, and yet you were the one that ended up starting a flamewar anyway right here.
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 05, 2009, 11:38:04 AM
The 1.2 community is a group of hackers and cheaters.
What flamewar? I don't see one...
I see a legitimate argument.
Isn't it not ironic that a 1.2 player arrives and attacks the person defending 1.3.
Jesus. This is like frikkin deja vu.
Please lock this topic to prevent any more of the same rubbish which has already overfilled this forum
for the last 6 years.
And a message to all:
Please stop posting new topics about 1.2 glitches. You can see what they always have and always will lead to.
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 06, 2009, 09:26:12 AM
What flamewar? I don't see one...
What flamewar?
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 05, 2009, 11:38:04 AM
I find it utterly disrespectful to the 1.3 patch makers who have dedicated a downright astonishing amount of time to the project, seeing people only playing 1.2 just because they enjoy screwing around with old bugs. The 1.2 community is a group of hackers and cheaters. And I will not back down from that claim regardless of how people try to justify them.
I enjoy a good match too. But only with the purity of play which is 1.3. :)
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 06, 2009, 05:26:01 AM
Yes ZA, we all know how fun cheating in otherwise perfectly legit games can be. Don't you just love ruining the game completely? Fun isn't it. I personally love seeing miserable people with nothing better to do than cheat and hack their way past your defences to destroy your recycler while floating in mid-air where you can't shoot them. [\sarcasm]
which provoked this
Quote from: Zero Angel on March 06, 2009, 05:36:25 AM
Wow, you really are an egocentric (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=egocentric) little kid arent you? I really am not upset, its just an observation i'm making.
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 06, 2009, 09:26:12 AMIsn't it not ironic that a 1.2 player arrives and attacks the person defending 1.3.
Jesus. This is like frikkin deja vu.
obviously its not defending 1.3 since there was no one attacking 1.3 in the first place in this topic. and infact 1.2 being attacked, which some of my previous quotes of you in this post suggests
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 06, 2009, 09:26:12 AM
Please lock this topic to prevent any more of the same rubbish which has already overfilled this forum
for the last 6 years.
yes! lock the topic before acdc gets to reply!
A flamewar is when you attack people personally and go hysterical with unfounded insults.
Attacking 1.2 is the same thing as defending 1.3.
Quote from: Ac/dc on March 06, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
yes! lock the topic before acdc gets to reply!
Preferably. This topic is on the verge of a meltdown... just like the last 5000 ones like this.
Maybe those who choose to hurl insults could just go and read another thread, while those of us who know what we are talking about, discuss strat games and strategy? Or do we need to use some sort of code when refering to the various versions?
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 06, 2009, 06:11:04 AM
Yes. That is exactly what I am, when I am aggravated.
Nonetheless, I wont turn this into a flame battle as you obviously just tried to.
Good then please stop saying things like:
QuoteThe 1.2 community is a group of hackers and cheaters.
That's obviously a challenge or provokation. Its like shoving someone and then expecting them not to punch you in the face.
I play 1.2 very passionately, and have cheated (ie: 'real' cheats, not the things you subjectively consider exploits) less than 4 times throughout the entire 7 years I played BZ2.
If this gets locked, it is just like BZ2Maps where Ego posts something contrary to everything in the thread then locks it. (Almost always a 1.3 related post.) Rise above that.
And BBB, do try to calm down a bit, just a bit. We all love you, but, don't implode.
And please dont lock the topic. I don't want to see a 1.2 or 1.3 debate here. Just keep bbb out of it. Nobody else wants to argue this.
Yep, leaving it open. This is a good topic, I enjoy reading it. I like it when mature individuals can have a conversation over things like this without getting blasted by flame comments (HINT: if it
does happen, ignore it). Ac/dc and BBB please take your passionate arguments to PMing.
We left off at:
Quote from: mrtwosheds on March 06, 2009, 08:14:16 AMQuoteWow MTS, I thought you hated 1.2.
No, I played 1.2 strat for ages... I hate having to jump in and out of the recy to get cheapy chains for my thugs, I hate early game rec hovering and I hate the warping scouts, all of these exploits reduce the players enjoyment and the viability of the strat game.
I hope that we get 1.3/4 developed to a point were even those notorious vets choose it over 1.2.
Flying,s gone, Map specific gravity is in!!!
Recycler variants can provide an huge range of modified and new units to customise the game to our liking.
QuoteIf you use an outdated patch to exploit its bugs... you are simply cheating.
No, they are just playing the game they are used to. Cheating is where one side fails to follow the rules observed by the other.
The problem with 1.2 Vetstrat now is that the skill level needed to command competatively are way beyond what most people can or want to give. I stopped playing it mostly because I got fed up with waiting ages for someone to take command of the other team before the game had even started...
I rarely ever command in vet strats. A lot of back-seat commanding goes on when I command (probably because I look like I don't know what I'm doing). I think that's why most vets don't like to command, therefore leaving one skilled commander commanding team 1 waiting for a team 2 commander for like 45 minutes.
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 06, 2009, 04:17:16 PM
And BBB, do try to calm down a bit, just a bit. We all love you, but, don't implode.
You what me now?? :lol:
Probably fair enough. This ridiculous argument has been had 1000s of times before and has never gotten anywhere. Bye.
QuoteA lot of back-seat commanding goes on when I command
I learned to type SHUTUP! very quickly. :-D
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 05, 2009, 11:38:04 AM
The 1.2 community is a group of hackers and cheaters.
While I agree someone using an exploit in a game is cheating, I do however recognize modding and game based rule sets. Since 1.3 came out, it has been an optional update to the 1.2 players. Even better, we can have multiple installs of BZ2 without any conflicts, thus have both a 1.2 install and a 1.3 install. As such, I see there being multiple ways to play BZ2 before we even touch mods and thus do not judge the 1.2 players for their style of game play. The only time I get angry and feel I need to put my foot down (ZA knows what I mean) is when a question of "Is Flying Cheating?" comes around and you get people only saying yes or no. The real answer is complex and I rather see answers of "It was deemed an exploit and fixed in 1.3 but it is deemed a skill by a group of 1.2 players and is still used in 1.2 today."
Absolutely correct. I enjoy a 1.3 game every once in awhile because it has some really great features (not to mention it's fun to 'own' in a 1.3 strat because 1.3 players tend to be easy to beat compared to 1.2 players who play under more demanding circumstances). I'm confident that the two different game styles is one of the reasons why its a good idea to have more than one install of BZ2. I'd rather see a recy variant that enables flying (thereby allowing all 1.2 players to move to 1.3), but since GSH is already dedicated most of his effort into fixing existing bugs in 1.3 -- its understandable how the community would have to use two seperate versions if they wanted different gameplay styles.
Scary when we agree, isn't it. :P
Yeah, i'm still pretty freaked out.
Quote from: Zero Angel on March 06, 2009, 04:16:13 PM
Good then please stop saying things like:
That's obviously a challenge or provokation. Its like shoving someone and then expecting them not to punch you in the face.
yup
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 06, 2009, 04:17:16 PM
If this gets locked, it is just like BZ2Maps where Ego posts something contrary to everything in the thread then locks it. (Almost always a 1.3 related post.) Rise above that.
And BBB, do try to calm down a bit, just a bit. We all love you, but, don't implode.
There are some rules that ppl need to folow, in forums, in life..
Thats why locking, probably you didnt lock topics in your lifetime at all, coz you didnt found any reasons.
Shure bz2maps, take good cate of guests and users, and ofc spamers. I see nothing wrong as long there is no 1.3 problems.
Quote from: Ego - Nikolas on March 11, 2009, 09:53:09 PM
There are some rules that ppl need to folow, in forums, in life..
Thats why locking, probably you didnt lock topics in your lifetime at all, coz you didnt found any reasons.
Shure bz2maps, take good cate of guests and users, and ofc spamers. I see nothing wrong as long there is no 1.3 problems.
The spur of the moment rules that were on BZ2Maps (that you wrote to justify your lockings, AFTER the offending posts were made) were removed by another admin (I *think* the site owner), but you continued to lock topics after that that really did not need to be locked (only difference was you could not say "read rules plz" and as such lock many fewer 1.3 topics now). You like to state your opinion, and then lock topics claiming fact.
Often exchanges like:
Other: Hey, bla bla bla XYZ
You: No, not XYZ, XYZ sucks, locked!
Really, this topic doesn't need to be derailed.Did we miss any exploits? (other than AVs, DO NOT LIST AVs!)
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 11, 2009, 10:01:35 PM
rules that were on BZ2Maps (that you wrote to justify your lockings,
You still dont understant. If I want to "justify" my ego i woud ban you at start.
Rules can be chandged to prevent flame wars, making locking topics, and prevent lots of bad stuff, im still doing my jub and lots of ppl believe in my jub, coz im mature and still lots of ppl just cant be admins and modeators. I was admin/controler/moderator from many sites( 4 !!? ). What sites i left clans/sites died, I was sad, but in the end who care for
brain suckers as they are.
Get a life, and plz try to get MY point of wiev.
Talk of prior incidents that occurred on the bz2maps forums are not relevant in this topic -- AND is no longer an issue. In other words it is 'spilled milk' as the saying goes. Take it to PM please.
Did we miss any?
Can BZ2 be hex edited or does that cause multiworld to fall apart?
And thanks for ending that insanity.
I don't know if it can be edited. I do know, however that an individual often has free reign with some of the shell variables -- including the ability to change the default recycler, send himself to an AI team, change starting units, change which vehicles are selectable (providing the other users have the *.txt file with the vehicle list) and other things. As far as I know, nobody uses the shell variables for 'evil' -- save for the occassional sneaky player getting on the computer team in MPI (though its usually rather obvious when this happens)
I remember finding the memory address for scrap, but I don't think I ever tested locking it in MP to see if it lagged or even worked at all.
I am thinking they would only work for the server and cause lots of resyncs. I do want to test this some time Steeveeo.
I have long since forgotten it though. :P
Quote from: Steeveeo on March 12, 2009, 12:16:14 AM
I remember finding the memory address for scrap, but I don't think I ever tested locking it in MP to see if it lagged or even worked at all.
Wait, I'm curiously confused about this.
Because BZ2 uses a multiworld system, it is likely that hex editing values in memory will cause resyncs. The server IIRC takes priority when this happens. Most games, hex editing doesn't work except for the server, but for BZ2, it would resync like mad (we think).
From what ive seen, aslong as you dont do something the game wouldnt normally allow, there is nothing wrong.
Recycler rushing, turrent humping, etc all sound fair.
Flying, and ghosting, no.
Wanna ask your opinion on something. One of my friends were playing team stratgey against two people we also knew so it was a big friend game kinda. He was isdf and i was scion (the enemy had one of each too)
What the enemy did was is drop the lancer missile on his rocket tanks (swarm was it? Forgot the name) so he could not defend against the bomber that was going to attack him. And they ended up winning. (i took out one of their bases, but i did not scrap manage wisely so the other guy swarmed me) we might have won if it was not for that and he got pissed.
What im asking is is that was dropping the swarm launcher on his rocket tanks to make them useless against a bomber fair?
Nurfing is fare.
I used to drop AT-Stabs on enemy Attilas all the time, even more fun, give it a plasma cannon. :P
lol, that's absolutely amazing! I'm gonna have to use that some time.
QuoteFrom what ive seen, aslong as you dont do something the game wouldnt normally allow, there is nothing wrong.
Recycler rushing, turrent humping, etc all sound fair.
Flying, and ghosting, no.
Rec rushing is a legitimate strategy, but not at the start of a game, because it spoils the game for everyone.
Turret humping is mainly due to the design of the turrets, weaponPitch = 1.0 preventing them from firing upwards, although a skilled humper can still kill a weaponPitch = 1.57 turret by circling on top of it.
Flying is fair when everyone is doing it.
Ghosting happens to everyone, its a bug! it only becomes an exploit when players deliberately induce it to protect themselves in an attack.
If you ever wondered why your (1.2) opponents spend most of the game in a scout, constantly moving with their nose pointed at the ground, its because they don't want you to see them coming or be able to shoot at them! But anyone will ghost if they have travelled far enough at full speed. I know a few Vets who have learned to spend the entire game at full speed while still commanding...they do not care that it ruins the game experience for everyone else. Winning is everything to them. Knowing that my opponent is deliberately inducing it is enough to make me just leave the game. (And ultimately 1.2 altogether)
I agree with you on the flying, if everyone does it or other glitches its fair.
The problem is flying is just so darn easy to do.
I HATE automatic leveling, worst way to stop flying, but it is what you are told to do.
Flying is hailed as a skill, but I really don't get why myself. I have done it several times, very well, without trying. Often I do not realize I am flying till I notice the ground is not getting closer. At such a point I simply maneuver myself as I would have on the ground, to any point I wish.
I hate the Skill vs Exploit argument, because even in the case of things like rocket jumping, it is a skill AND an exploit. The thing here is, how is it a skill if I can do it well without any form of practice? Am I just good? The only thing I can think of is the long time I spent analyzing BZ2's physics before I had ever heard of the flying bug.
Quote from: cheesepuffly on March 12, 2009, 07:42:10 PMWhat im asking is is that was dropping the swarm launcher on his rocket tanks to make them useless against a bomber fair?
It was perfectly fair. Your rocket tank was just sitting there. It is your responsibility to notice things going on around you and to make them stop. :-) When someone leaves an assault tank outside my base, I drop some crappy cannon weapon on it when they go back to base for something. They should have either moved it or brought it with them.
--
I have never ghosted to ghost. I don't like the ghost effect at all (even though it might be useful at times). I only ghost for the speed it gives me.
Perhaps scientists should work on some form of anti-virus for bio-metal to prevent unauthorized weapon up/downgrades. :P
I imagine it would be possible to team filter weapons, but it would also stop us stealing them. I have stolen loads of weapons, but never been tempted to drop weak ones on an enemy.
I like the ability to steal weapons from an enemy -- esp in games where one team gets armory and possibly servicebay first. It's a great morale booster for the inferior teched team to steal a chaingun -- and especially laser from the enemy team.
It is possible to team filter weapons in the pathes. well, to an extent. you can mimick it pretty well. Genericly 'getable' powerups is a BZ2 thing though.
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how to do this flying bug? I've never done it...
WHAT? You can do it with your eyes closed! Just.. ya know... drive the craft and do standard maneuvering, and next thing you know you are flying off the ground. For this reason I think flying tutorials and schools are bunk.
Turn automatic leveling off. Start a map like Chill with a cliff and jump off (easiest in a Mortar Bike). Look straight down and press S.
At the same time, if we went to the point where our bio-metal tanks had a system to prevent unauthorized powerups from working and had the ability to turn it off to steal, I wouldn't put it past the scientists to come up with 'fake' powerups that do harm instead of give you chain gun. :P
A daywrecker that looks like a cannon powerup that can be launched from the armoury.
Now that's just cruel.
And now, because you've said it, it's going to come to pass...
Thanks, BBB. You've doomed us all.
VSMIT.
That's all? Messing with the constants I was able to make day wreckers that don't fall. Made em look like apserv already!
Nobody seems to have taken to my idea of a giant fake pod that shoots smaller pods that blow things up.
Oh well.
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 15, 2009, 07:19:11 AM
That's all? Messing with the constants I was able to make day wreckers that don't fall. Made em look like apserv already!
I didn't go to that extent but in a twisted MPI DLL, I have a very powerful weapon called "Ethereal Shot", one of the players that played with me always wanted that weapon. Finally I slipped in a second "Ethereal Shot" power up. The only difference was it was spell "ethereal shot" (note the case). They asked for it so I sent one out to them. They saw it comming, drove up to it and..."Hey, new record, I didn't know pilots could eject 10k in the air!".
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 15, 2009, 01:08:10 AM
WHAT? You can do it with your eyes closed! Just.. ya know... drive the craft and do standard maneuvering, and next thing you know you are flying off the ground. For this reason I think flying tutorials and schools are bunk.
anyone that has a considerable experience at flying would understand that there is alot more to it than that to be able to master it. it involves such things as killing enemies on the ground from above, hovering rats, hovering bases, killing enemies above you whilst you are in the air also, using flying to escape death, and lots more.
Shooting/killing things while you are hovering and unhittable is one thing. Shooting/killing things while you are actually flying and hittable is another.
I didn't know how to do it either, NK1, it's not that easy.
Personally I have had someone before use the 'flying' exploit to hover a motor bike at least 1km in the air and shower my base with motors. I don't think pulling that off was particularly easy as they had to achieve that height before reaching me base to avoid my rocket tanks.
The only hard part about that is aiming. Height is the easiest part of flying.
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 16, 2009, 01:57:05 AMHeight is the easiest part of flying.
For me, speed is. Height takes work. You have to turn your ship in several different directions and use many button combinations to level yourself out and balance your ship. Speed is just turning your ship and pressing the same 3 buttons (unless, of course, you want to change direction. That's a different story).
If I want to change direction I have to get fairly high up first, cut the engines and then turn around. The tricky part is to get flying again before you get too low.
Wow, pressing keys quickly. That must take a *lot* of skill...
A mortar bike is like a friken elevator. You don't even need to try with that. Just look down and hit S, BOOM, in the air.
ooo fun. i must try this at some point.
oh btw, all evilness and trickery noted here taken down for future reference :D
Quote from: Red Devil on March 16, 2009, 05:46:58 AM
Wow, pressing keys quickly. That must take a *lot* of skill...
In a non-mortar bike vehicle, I mean.
I pounded and wonder how high it can go?I think 5,000?Anyone have any idea how high it is?All i see was big bluuuuuuuuuuue.
just leave a nav near where you are hovering and press tilde, it will show you the distance.
A map is like a big rectangular prism standing up. It's width is from one side of the map to the opposite. The bottom is wherever the ground is located. It is infinite units tall, from what I'm aware of. In other words, there is no limit to how high you can go. I've been several hundred thousand meters high before without any problems except for the fact that you're in the air and unable to do anything about it if you need to get down in a hurry :) .
I've done experiments. At certain velocities/altitudes (in combination), all vertex points become unstable. It is at this point that you turn around, or you risk crashing. It is not possible, to my knowledge, to get to the maximum height because of this strange instability. The instability is worst for things that use vertex animation.
Yes, I did this, YEARS ago.
Just tested it in 1.2. Maximum height is 1,000,000 meters up. The game basically said "okay, that's enough" and sent me falling again.
I'm tabbed right now (doing this in multiplayer) and still falling. I've been falling for about 5 minutes and am currently about 800km up. My ship is shaking, is that bad? :P
How bloody long did you have to keep flying to get that high?? :-o
well, not much apparently.
I think it was a modded cerberi vehicle i slapped together once in 1.2, you pressed 'e' once and you crashed 10 seconds later due to "breaking the vert barrier"
Quote from: bigbadbogie on March 17, 2009, 10:12:49 PM
How bloody long did you have to keep flying to get that high?? :-o
Played around with a scion TAP and some other stuff I figured out on DM: Bane. TAPs has some funky effects there...
Ever gone blasting up into the air at 10000 m/s? How about back down at about 20000 m/s? I didn't see the ground before I hit it, it just appeared. That's always fun :)
Fun? Sounds bloody painful to me.
Does the ship can be destory from too much force on impact?I dont think so.I will try out on thursday nite at 800pm fe game.
Not on unless you crank the velocity to extreme values in 1.2, It's easier to do in 1.3 as you have 2 walls to 'ping' and 'pong' off of. (the 'world boundary')
Durring the development of PB4, I tested out the forward thrust jetpack with my personal modifications on Loot.
Lets jsut say with a thrust speed of 1e9 along with the map's invisible walls at its edges, all i saw was a blood red screen for 5 seconds and respawned as a pilot.
IOW: the tank went SO FAST it blew up on impact, sending me flying to the other wall and spatting to death all in the time of pressing 'c'.
IOW: the tank went SO FAST it blew up on impact, sending me flying to the other wall and spatting to death all in the time of pressing 'c'.
[/quote]
Did you dive down fast and hard on impact?I will try it on thursday march 19 800pm fe game.Hopeful,no froze computer.You guys have 4 fe tv maps?Its very strange cuz enemy didnt come and assault our base.I noticed the menu showing rocket tower and g66 weapons on fe maps without bad asset.
10e9 = 10,000,000,000 meters per second
the speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s in the real world.
so 10e9 is roughly an attempt to travel at 33 times the speed of light... :-D
Hmm, now where did I put that straightjacket? :lol:
Quote from: Warfreak on March 18, 2009, 02:37:59 PMIOW: the tank went SO FAST it blew up on impact, sending me flying to the other wall and spatting to death all in the time of pressing 'c'.
You could probably hear the painscream from space
theres a longer winded way to reach maximum height
game.cheat bztnt
then get out that hovercraft soldier and burn that ass off with youre jetpack!
i got
SO
bored! :lol:
@ Hybrid: 1.3 PB4 allows for Directional Thrust as an option (I know its called forward thrust, but its basically tracing the players view direction)
Think ACTUAL afterburners used for an increased boost in speed. In my case a "faster than the speed of light" burst.
Quote from: Warfreak on March 19, 2009, 12:21:55 AM
Think ACTUAL afterburners used for an increased boost in speed. In my case a "faster than the speed of light" burst.
Your "Warp 33" travels. :P
Actually the Warp speed for 33 times the speed of light is (10/3) root of 33 or Warp 2.85 on the new warp scale.
On the old scale it is the cubed root of 33, or Warp 3.21
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Warptable.gif)
EDIT:
hybrid posted while I did. Actually Borg use thin subspace barriers and transwarp conduits so they more teleport than travel at warp speed. Borg transwarp goes up to 20 times the speed of conventional warp, which is IIRC around 5 or 6 or 7, which on the scale, using warp 6 as the common, goes a fastest of 7849 times the speed of light.
In real world,You are persist like human pancake. :lol:
Quote from: hybirdisdf on March 19, 2009, 03:00:42 AM
In real world,You are persist like human pancake. :lol:
:?
Yeah,You know gravity.Increbile powerful engine!You cant breath,You cant see,You cant feel.Its all black out and dead but the engine contiune to running forever til on impact perhap star system.Die happy Die happy. :lol: :-D
Hrm, flying. I might have to try hitting a wall at warp 3.
Quote from: hybirdisdf on March 19, 2009, 04:32:15 AM
Yeah,You know gravity.Increbile powerful engine!
Gravity is the weakest of the four universal forces - Nuclear Fission, Nuclear Fusion, Electromagnetic Field Attraction/Repulsion, and Gravity, in descending strength.
See, I know my physics too :P
Isn't gravity a field?
So is electromagnetism...
This is technically stuff I'm not supposed to know, 'cause I'm still at GCSE (I don't know what that equates to in America, though its where you'd be in High School at 14 to 16) and this is beyond A-Level (which is after GCSE but before university) and probably university level physics... it's bloody confusing.
People who know too much MUST be eliminated.
:-o
:cry:
I am hoping that you don't mean me.
Physics is fun, Chemistry... not so much. Besides, Chemistry is just applied Physics. Then again Physics is applied Math...
From exploits, to modded superwarpers, to NERDALERTNERDALERT (Startrek warp theory), to physics...
Wow guys, OT much? :lol:
QuoteIsn't gravity a field?
THEY DON'T KNOW! HUMANS ARE NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO WORK IT OUT!
[offtopic]
Human minds (save for maybe three or so) are too small to comprehend all the natural forces. Dalaks are supreme so they can reason it out, yet they are still too small. :P
Gravity is just as powerful as all the other forces, just existing in multidimensions, just as where the Dalaks had their temporal war was offset from our 3 dimensions. :)
[/offtopic]
Do not forget, Gravity is also subject to the cosmic speed limit and time dilation effects as well, so as you speed up and your mass increases, your gravitational force increases, but you also move slower through time so it still all seems normal to you.
Shows like Star Trek get around it by creating a Warp Field, which is a contained bubble of normalspace what is propelled just on top of space, like a boat riding on the water, if the water was our space, a ship in Star Trek with a warp field around it is like riding on top of the water, able to get to vastly faster speeds then any ship within the water because of the drag of water/space (the Higgs Boson field). Systems like transwarp that the Borg use go higher out, instead of riding on the water, still able to impact things underneath, it is like the ship is flying above the water, not touching it, it creates a corridor through another dimension.
(http://www.overminddl1.com/image_scripts/image_sig.php?type=ODL1signitures&image/sig.gif)
Generated by OvermindDL1's Signature Auto-Add Script (http://overminddl1.com) via GreaseMonkey (http://greasemonkey.mozdev.org/)
Quote from: OvermindDL1 on March 20, 2009, 07:27:39 PM
save for maybe three or so
One of those three being yours, I suppose? :-P
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 19, 2009, 08:22:37 PM
Physics is fun, Chemistry... not so much. Besides, Chemistry is just applied Physics. Then again Physics is applied Math...
I beg to differ... chemistry is very fun because its so easy. Most people over here get A*s without trying :lol:
Physics is ace, though, you're right there.
Lemme guess, you are taking HS chem... just wait till college. When you need to know the geometry of every compound.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/purity.png)
I was wondering if that was going to be posted, N1...
About Chemistry: I took AP Chem my junior year in HS. Quite a fun class, and quite a bit easier than AP Physics, which I took the next year. Though everybody has a different experience.
VSMIT.
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 20, 2009, 08:15:01 PM
Lemme guess, you are taking HS chem... just wait till college. When you need to know the geometry of every compound.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/purity.png)
I was wondering..
Where Spiritualist fits on this sacle?
There are diferent types of Spiritualism too
In a certain sense, isn't Spiritualism basically looking at imaginary numbers in math?
Quote from: Sonic on March 23, 2009, 03:46:45 AM
In a certain sense, isn't Spiritualism basically looking at imaginary numbers in math?
I thought that was something like "Numerics" or along that line.
I believe he was referencing those that believe in the concept of spirits (hence, spiritualists). The stuff like Reiki (sp?), Astral Projection, and the like.
I think that is something with its own scale. Spiritual things are normally based in belief. The chart given deals specifically with the cold hard fact and their interpretations.
I just read the last three pages and still have no idea how this thread got where its going.
But, with hovering, it isn't that it's hard to do that makes it fun, but the fact that players have an extreme freedom of movement while shooting at you from any angle adds tactical aspects that otherwise aren't present.
Kinda like if everyone in a footrace could only run at the same speed, it would be boring, but the seemingly random ability to become better depending on effort makes it a competition.
A long time ago on a natural selection forum, some people were discussing bunnyhopping, the most balanced opinion seemed to me to be that if it were removed (like in counterstrike) that something else should be added that this player could not do as well as others to encourage competition.
But being able to make a sandwich in the middle of the game without letting anyone actually know you went afk was always a novel experience :P
Just find somewhere to hide and stay there, I used to do that a lot in some old shooters. I'm good at hiding :)
Hunting is more fun then hiding, especially if you can shoot through walls.
Now that is cheating. Shooting around corners is OK, but shooting through walls?! :evil:
And I meant hiding while you're doing something else :P
So if you're sitting in your room and a sniper bullet blasts through the wall and into your head, the shooter cheated, right? :-)
Quote from: Feared_1 on March 24, 2009, 08:24:26 PM
So if you're sitting in your tank and a sniper bullet blasts through the window and into your head, the shooter cheated, right? :-)
Fix'd
Its likely a good thing topics about 1.2 exploits get a bit derailed since it helps prevent some ridiculous unfounded flaming.
I got kicked and banned from a 1.3 game for sniping someone after they killed my ship.
Spawn! Damn you! Play more 1.2 will ya?
ZA: I'm not the one who isn't on msn.
N1: I got kicked from a 1.3 game for (insert reason here).
I've been kicked from many and I think router banned from one 1.2 game just because they don't like me. I never make it to playing, they just, don't like me.
It isn't that they don't like you, it is because they don't want someone to take up a space and make them possibly need to wait longer for a gg. Yeah, impatience is a bitch sometimes.
Quote from: Nielk1 on March 24, 2009, 10:53:47 PM
I've been kicked from many and I think router banned from one 1.2 game just because they don't like me. I never make it to playing, they just, don't like me.
I don't think many people do any banning at the router level, even for known AV'ers. I know its a bit of a PITA (pain in the neck) to router ban so I only do it for people who AV my game.
The only reason I can imagine a host kicking an unknown player are
- The 'newb' is rude or obnoxious (keeps saying 'start' when the game is 5/8, does the 'i need a ship' voice thing, singlehandedly rushes into a squad of 3 vets or into a fully defended base, losing his ship and expecting his commander to make a new one for him NOW)
- The host asks a player to uncloak and he refuses (its a reasonable request, in order to help balance teams, and prevent smurfing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurfing_(online_gaming)) from happening)
- The game fills up to 8/8 and there are 'knockers' waiting outside -- then the 'knocker' (usually a vet) will be given priority over the unknown player, and the unknown will be kicked to make room
- Some hosts are just a-holes or don't like to deal with the problems that newbs cause (see: point 1)
Also keep in mind that a lot of newbs will not have enough skill or smarts to be able to make their place on a team worthwhile. If a strat newbie loses ships too often while not doing things like helping his wingmen out, or not hitting pools. Then he is actually harmful to the team since it costs resources to keep building ships and weapons powerups for him. Lots of new players get a lot of flak when they try to participate in vet strats for this very reason -- so it is very difficult to be accepted by the vet community at first, you just have to be persistent.
You can ip ban someone with peer gaurdian, so it isn't very hard :-P
Well I know at least 3 times they didn't like 'me' as they said so and recognized me from forums.
That's why you use a different name when you play bz2.
Banning someone at my router/firewall level isn't hard, I have a specific table in my iptables for bad IPs.
Quote from: Spawn on March 25, 2009, 03:10:15 AM
That's why you use a different name when you play bz2.
I would, but that is cloaking isn't it?
Not if you always use the same different name :P
Cloaking deals more with an established player misrepresenting their own skill to unbalance teams. I have a suspicion that some established vets may actually be a forgotten inside joke established for this purpose, or possibly to still be able to play when intoxicated without affecting their reputation.
People play this game sober? That's not fair!