First of all I'm not sure if this is the correct forum or place for this, but I am trying to find some help about playing Battlezone II or Battlezone.
Many years ago, I had a system with a Athlon 1.5ghz 1800+, Geforce3 Ti200, 1gb PC2700, and Battlezone installed on it. The game ran just fine and I enjoyed it greatly as the only FPS + Strategy that I found at the time.
Recently a friend gave me some software from his old computer and it included Battlezone 2. So, this sparked a reinterest in Battlezone for me. I installed both on my current XP machine. Athlon 64 3700+ 2.2ghz, 2x 1gb PC3200 ram, Geforce 7600GT 256mb AGP 8x.
The games load for me and they run, but I'm getting worse performance in Battlezone 1 than I remember on the older system, and I'm getting the same on Battlezone II. Being that I've played BZ 1, I'm not as worried about it. I would like to be able to play Battlezone II, at least on single player.
Now on to the problem :
In Battlezone II, most notably in the 4th mission I believe(but I could be wrong), the one that comes after your commander piloting a constructor and rebuilding a power supply, I get impressive framerate drops.
In most situations around the base, the framerate is around 25-55 fps, usually staying at 55fps. However when I go to turn and head towards the direction of the two "hardware" that the superior commander in a carrier wants me to protect and not let the scions steal, my FPS drops to 5fps. It's so bad that it affects my firing rate, aim, and has gotten me killed in this mission several times when engaging the 2 tug-type enemies and 2 scouts/tanks/whatever that escort them.
I've installed the 1.2 patch, and also the 1.3 PB4 I believe just to check and see if they would help. It has not been any help at all. I've tried turning all the graphics down to low/off, and see little/no improvement.
It is hard to believe that this newer system than my old system that ran Battlezone just fine, is struggling to run BZ 1 or BZ 2. I seriously doubt its a lack of hardware, but more something in the newer software that I'm missing.
I just wondered if someone had any ideas, or should I be looking for an even more powerful system to run these 10 year old games?
Any help would be appreciated, I'm kind of lost as to what to try, possibly emulating win98 with virtual PC or something, but that is slow in its own right.
*edit*
It definately seems to be related to ships coming in range/firefights, goign around the base seems to be no lag, but when those 2 tugs/2 support fighters show up and I go intercept them.... instant 55-60 down to 5-12. Going over there to the exact same spot after I've killed them produces only about a 10fps drop down to 45~.
That is really weird.
What other games can you play on this computer without the framerate drop?
I don't game that heavily, but:
Warcraft III: The frozen throne, shows slowness at times in a 7+ player game when full armies are moving. I figured this was expected.
Diablo II LoD, shows no real slowness ever that I've noticed
Starcraft Brood War is an old game but shows no slowness.
The machine got a 11,000 score in 3dmark03 if memory recalls.
Quote from: Vid on March 13, 2009, 05:12:12 AM
First of all I'm not sure if this is the correct forum or place for this, but I am trying to find some help about playing Battlezone II or Battlezone.
Many years ago, I had a system with a Athlon 1.5ghz 1800+, Geforce3 Ti200, 1gb PC2700, and Battlezone installed on it. The game ran just fine and I enjoyed it greatly as the only FPS + Strategy that I found at the time.
Recently a friend gave me some software from his old computer and it included Battlezone 2. So, this sparked a reinterest in Battlezone for me. I installed both on my current XP machine. Athlon 64 3700+ 2.2ghz, 2x 1gb PC3200 ram, Geforce 7600GT 256mb AGP 8x.
The games load for me and they run, but I'm getting worse performance in Battlezone 1 than I remember on the older system, and I'm getting the same on Battlezone II. Being that I've played BZ 1, I'm not as worried about it. I would like to be able to play Battlezone II, at least on single player.
Now on to the problem :
In Battlezone II, most notably in the 4th mission I believe(but I could be wrong), the one that comes after your commander piloting a constructor and rebuilding a power supply, I get impressive framerate drops.
In most situations around the base, the framerate is around 25-55 fps, usually staying at 55fps. However when I go to turn and head towards the direction of the two "hardware" that the superior commander in a carrier wants me to protect and not let the scions steal, my FPS drops to 5fps. It's so bad that it affects my firing rate, aim, and has gotten me killed in this mission several times when engaging the 2 tug-type enemies and 2 scouts/tanks/whatever that escort them.
I've installed the 1.2 patch, and also the 1.3 PB4 I believe just to check and see if they would help. It has not been any help at all. I've tried turning all the graphics down to low/off, and see little/no improvement.
It is hard to believe that this newer system than my old system that ran Battlezone just fine, is struggling to run BZ 1 or BZ 2. I seriously doubt its a lack of hardware, but more something in the newer software that I'm missing.
I just wondered if someone had any ideas, or should I be looking for an even more powerful system to run these 10 year old games?
Any help would be appreciated, I'm kind of lost as to what to try, possibly emulating win98 with virtual PC or something, but that is slow in its own right.
*edit*
It definately seems to be related to ships coming in range/firefights, goign around the base seems to be no lag, but when those 2 tugs/2 support fighters show up and I go intercept them.... instant 55-60 down to 5-12. Going over there to the exact same spot after I've killed them produces only about a 10fps drop down to 45~.
Sorry to hear that but you need to check this http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/index.php/topic,8618.0.html
If you want to play 1.2 you will have abaut 500 fps.(Im having abaut 2000 fps) Better game play, more maps, more mods, and more ppl to play with
Get 1.2 pacth here http://www.bz2maps.com/files.html
QuoteI've installed the 1.2 patch, and also the 1.3 PB4 I believe just to check and see if they would help. It has not been any help at all.
If you had read his post you would have seen this. Neither work properly.
Quotemore mods
Uh... no.
Try rolling back your graphics drivers Vid.
Are you running Windows Vista and Direct X 10?
Remember that BZ2 is optimized for use with Intel processors.
A 1.5Ghz AMD Athlon is exactly the kind of thing it wasnt written for. Even i struggle to get above 70FPS with a dual core 2.1 ghz proccessor and an Nvidia graphics card.
GSH is working on ways to keep framerates up all the time, my suggestion is to just wait and see what happens next, in the meantime, keep the screen resolution in the mid levels and the sky and terrain detail on medium/high.
just play with youre graphics settings.
If all video fails after a while except window borders, restart bz2 and play with sky on none from now on.
ALL VERSION ARE AFFECTED and 1.2 is likely worse off as 1.3 has had various fixes. The next 1.3 should help more, but that is not out yet, and I cannot say for sure since I do not know your computer.
Sadly its a waiting game. What happens if you run BZ2 in a window?
I went on to play the missions after, well what I could.
There is a mission, possibly #5 or #6, where you land and your commander sets up the base while you protect her, you have access to a recycler, scouts, and then you are asked to go put scavengers at bio metal 1 and 2.
Bio metal 2 has about 5 turrets at it and they will nicely destroy you if you go near it, later you are told to go destroy a relic thing with a satchel charge.
In this mission, I'm usually at 25-40fps, and frequently dip down to 5-10fps during battles, and sometimes just looking around the base.
Athlon 3700 2.2ghz
Windows XP
Directx 9.0c
I'll try running it in a window, but will have to figure out how to do that.
Alt Enter works, wonder if it will stay windowed.
I'm running pretty much on all low settings. I"m not sure if P3 optimized should be clicked, as i've did it both ways and that don't seem to help.
Sometimes in a mission(5 or 6), after a while, the whole game will lock up and i'll be forced to ctrl alt delete. The sound will still be playing,but the video is locked.
*edit*
windowed mode doesn't help
P3 optimizing changes the coloring of the units somewhat (ie: red will be changed to pink, blue will be light blue) but I don't think it affects gameplay.
NK1, no problems with sky high here in 1.2. I even have an Geforce 8600 and everything runs as it should, so therefore we can assume that theres only a very very low probability that it's his card. Drivers maybe, but if its the drivers (or DirectX) than problems like this should show up in other games -- especially older ones.
QuoteI've installed the 1.2 patch, and also the 1.3 PB4 I believe just to check and see if they would help.
If you did this to one installation of bz2, it will not work properly, you should only use either 1.2 or 1.3 not both.
I reinstalled BZ2 each time I patched.
I asked the video question because that happens a lot. I updated my drivers because other games had been patched to the point they crashed with my old ones, and now 1.2 AND 1.3 cant have sky turned on. Other issues should be better in 1.3.
I have a game I can't play because the mouse ALWAYS lags by like 5 seconds. Luckily not BZ2...
Hi Vid,
Yeah, it looks suspiciously like a video drivers issue as the others are saying, if not just video (and your entire system) in general.
Have you gone into Graphic options and turned everything off or low (except for Brightness, heh)? Usually, Lights and Terrain are pretty good framerate reducers in BZII. I'd start there if you haven't already.
If you have an older video card, try switching that in and see what happens. Do you still have that Ti200? I still have mine. :)
1. Check your video aperture size in BIOs.
2. Check the size of your page file. 2 x RAM is good.
They are all set as low as they can go. I don't have the Ti200 anymore unfortunately.
Paging file is 3gb.
I'll try going back to an older driver(84.something I think) tonight or tommorow, but worried it will affect other games.
Is it normal to have to alienate newer games to be able to play an older one if it turns out to be the driver?
Under my nvidia control panel I also have alot of options available.
Anisotopic filtering
antialiasing - gamma correction
AA - Setting
AA - Transparency
Conformant Texture Clamp
Extension Limit
Force mipmaps
Multidisplay/mixed GPU acceleration
Stereo - Display mode
Texture filtering - anisotropic mip filter optimization
Texture filtering - Anisotropic sample optimization
Texture filtering - Negative LoD bias
Texture filtering - Quality
Texture filtering - trilinear optimization
Triple buffering
Vertical Sync
Leave those application controlled or off? or should I set them differently.
Set the BIOS video aperture as high as it will go, which is probably 256 or 512. Lower the settings for everything else, one at a time, until things improve.
Someone else mentioned drivers, and that's been the case for me. With the latest Invidia drivers BZ2 chugs to a complete halt after 10-15 minutes of playing. It seems normal for awhile, then stutters for a bit, then slowly grinds to a halt.
Rolling back to an earlier driver set fixed things, and I've resisted the urge to grab the latest and greates for some time now. :) Gotta have my BZ2...
-Av-
When it crashes I sometimes get:
Fatal Error
Uhoh. Repeatedly failed to call BeginScene, Probably some kind of graphics error. Exiting.
Drivers...
Dropped support for older games.
Try rolling back and see if that helps. Or just finding older ones.
93.71_forceware_winxp2k_english_whql.exe
directx 9.0c aug 2006
60fps throughout, never drops below 40. Went back to every mission I lagged in, and so far I can't drop it below 50 in most situations, it drops below 40 on mission loading though.... but you don't need FPS then.
Went back to the same mission where you have to defend the two pieces of "hardware", its so much easier doing that at 60fps than at 5fps.
Now I just hope my other games work on this older driver.
Also I'm up on medium settings atm, will try high as well.
Glad you got it going.
Glad you got it going too. If you are worried about the other games, perhaps you can obtain another PC and configure it to be your BZII rig.
dont worry about that
as Nielk1 said, the next patch should improve FPS a lot. You've just got to be patient.
Even more patient seeing as GSH is going to have even more other things taking up his time soon!
/sighs, get it going good, and get to the scion missions.
Everytime I have a scion builder go make a lung(which if you know the missions... this makes doing them hard).... game crashes.
No errors, just black screen, lock, and exe poofs. Maybe it just don't want me to play the scion missions. ISDF missions work ok still.
After the game crashes... post up the contents of BATTLEZONE.log from the root directory and we should be able to find out the problem.
The lung was made this time. This time it crashed when I morphed the ship.
---- Battlezone II Log File ----
//=====================================================
App version: Patch 1.3pb4a Aug 4 2008 12:08:55
Windows version: Windows Version: 5.1.2600 'Service Pack 2' PlatformID=2
Last few battlezone.log lines (may or may not be relevant):
DIAG|GLOBAL | runcodes:153 |01:48:13|19501 |[Main] Entering run code [MISSION]
DIAG|GLOBAL | runcodes:153 |01:48:13|19501 |[Mission] Entering run code [RUN]
DIAG|GLOBAL | runcodes:153 |01:48:13|19505 |[View] Entering run code [CINERACTIVE]
DIAG|GLOBAL | runcodes:153 |01:48:15|21529 |[View] Entering run code [COCKPIT]
(done)
Exception code: 40000015 {Fatal Application Exit}
%hs
Message : Unhandled Exception
Error occurred at 3/15/2009 01:50:18.
D:\Battlezone 2\bzone.exe, run by JEP.
1 processor(s), type 586.
Process Memory : 1775 MB free out of 2048 MB total
Physical memory: 1432 MB free out of 2048 MB total
Page(swap) file: 3441 MB free out of 3943 MB total
Fault address: 005783DF 01:001773DF D:\Battlezone 2\bzone.exe
Registers:
EAX:00000000
EBX:00390000
ECX:00000000
EDX:7C90EB94
ESI:00C9CB88
EDI:00000000
CS:EIP:AF7001B:005783DF
SS:ESP:42280023:022EF964 EBP:0AF7D980
DS:AF70023 ES:AF70023 FS:AF7003B GS:22E0000
Flags:00200202
Call stack:
Address Return Function SourceFile
005783DF 00000000 005AC771 dlfree+0x0000060F
005AC771 00000000 00484AD5 MeshEnt::Release+0x00000071
00484AD5 00000000 00505C2F MeshEnt::~MeshEnt+0x00000027
00505C2F 00000000 0048F5C4 ENTITY::Remove+0x00000013
0048F5C4 00000000 0049B34D GameObject::Remove+0x000000E1
0049B34D 00000000 00481079 LandCreature::Explode+0x00000102
00481079 00000000 0049AB0F Craft::Simulate+0x00000348
0049AB0F 00000000 0050715D LandCreature::Simulate+0x00000044
0050715D 00000000 0046763A ENTITY::SimulateAllLocal+0x00000180
0046763A 00000000 00468195 MoveOneTurn+0x0000015B
00468195 00000000 0057DDAF MissionHandler::State::RunState::Process+0x000003B1
0057DDAF 00000000 00465C7A RunCodes::Process+0x000001BF
00465C7A 00000000 0057DDAF MissionHandler::Process+0x00000012
0057DDAF 00000000 0057D8B4 RunCodes::Process+0x000001BF
0057D8B4 00000000 0045B598 Main::MessagePump+0x00000064
0045B598 00000000 0045B28D HandledMain+0x000003F6
0045B28D 00000000 00458BC8 HandledMain+0x000000EB
00458BC8 00000000 0056DBFD WinMain+0x00000059
0056DBFD 00000000 7C816FD7 fabs+0x00000191
7C816FD7 00000000 00000000 RegisterWaitForInputIdle+0x00000049
That came up in a runtime error.
Full log file won't fit in one post
I installed a second BZ 2 in a diff directory and left it at 1.0 instead of 1.3 PB4
Transformation(first scion mission) went off without a hitch with no other modifications. Still crashes in PB4.
Thanks for all the help by the way.
Between 1.0 and 1.3PB4a, I can play through every mission except one.
Scion mission #2, Ambush
1.3PB4a - can't get to it as I'm stuck in #1 Transformation even game.cheat bzwinner crashes/error.
1.0 - can do the mission up until it says take a builder to the ambush spot. I send a builder to the ambush spot, and build a jammer beside the ambush spot, neither the builder to ambush nor jammer objectives update. I build jammers all throughout my base as I can, move the builder back and forth, but can't find a way to update it. After a while, I go storm the ISDF base out of anger, and easily destroy it, but then a neverending wave of counterattacking ISDF units comes.
You don't just have to build a jammer, it tells you that you must also build some defenses. And that means usually one spire, but I always bring two guardians there also. It won't activate until you build that spire.
Quote from: Vid on March 17, 2009, 07:55:31 PM
Thanks for all the help by the way.
Between 1.0 and 1.3PB4a, I can play through every mission except one.
Scion mission #2, Ambush
1.3PB4a - can't get to it as I'm stuck in #1 Transformation even game.cheat bzwinner crashes/error.
1.0 - can do the mission up until it says take a builder to the ambush spot. I send a builder to the ambush spot, and build a jammer beside the ambush spot, neither the builder to ambush nor jammer objectives update. I build jammers all throughout my base as I can, move the builder back and forth, but can't find a way to update it. After a while, I go storm the ISDF base out of anger, and easily destroy it, but then a neverending wave of counterattacking ISDF units comes.
In Ambush, are you using the Builder that was already provided when the mission loads up to make the Jammer? Do not make another Builder from the Matriarch and then send that to the Jammer point (use a second Builder for anything else). From what I remember, the script only calls for the Builder already manufactured right as the game starts. I don't recall the spire activation that Axes mentions, but also give that a shot.
Try BZII version 1.1 or 1.2 to run this mission if you can't run it in 1.0, if you haven't already. You can also install versions 1.3pb1, pb2, pb3 and pb4 (not pb4a) if that gets your gander.
I normally build a 2nd builder/constructor, just because they are snail speed.
What are the odds that I sent the 2nd one to the nav everytime, or does just having 2 make it not work?
Anyway, it worked this time, mission in progress, gotta wait for his slow snail to get back to base and set up a factory and other buildings.
Also, I've been trying to search around for more information on BZII, as since I got this second hand, it did not come with a manual or anything. The basic game is fine, and i did find the ign guide for units and most of the weapons, however it does not go into great detail that I've seen. Questions come to mind, such as what are some of the better weapons to equip different units with, what role does armor have in lessening damage and what types, what do the shields do for the scion(IE if stasis protects from both types, why use the more expensive individual), and which are generally better to use. I hate to bug everyone here, especially if there is somewhere else to read up on it.
Glad you got it going. You don't need to bring the first builder back to base to build stuff if its travel time isn't necessary and inconvenient. You can leave it there at the jammer point and you can then make another builder once you have scrap. But it's up to you. Here's a tip: You can build a Hauler and then pick up the builder and then you command the Hauler to wherever you need the builder (that the Hauler has) to be at. Travel time is reduced by a factor of two as compared to just the builder walking to its destination.
There is an official manual but it is in electronic HTML form, not paperback, i.e. it came on the CD and gets installed to your PC. Find it under Start/Programs/Battlezone II/Help System, if you haven't already. Yes, it is at best rudimentary information, but you might find something there you've never seen before. As for deeper details, you can find it here at the forum. Others can give you more links to what you need, as it's not off the top of my head. Don't forget the other Readme's in the BZII root directory.
read that too. Didn't know it had no manual with it.
It was just strange odd things, like if its possible to name a nav without being in a relay bunker(scion don't get a relay bunker), the shields, and if you get stasis, which is cheaper than the other two, but claims to do both... why buy the other two. I can test the shields, and probably will, but I'm not sure on the navs. Though its not too hard to use numbers.
In regards to the shields: One protects against one type well, the other protects against the other well, and the third blocks them both, only a little bit.
Use the Scion Antenna mound to do the same thing as the ISDF bunker when naming navs. Yes the shields protect from different things, like use absorption against energy weapons, and stasis against projectiles and energy weapons, deflection deflects projectiles away from hull. It's all in the manual given when the game is installed under the start button.
I think Neilk1 is going to copy page for page the manual hard copy for us at some point. Can't wait, I lost mine in a fire.
Eventually... When I learn my new scanner...
Not sure how I missed the Antenna console, oh well.
I went ahead and played a little on the shields:
Warrior:
no shields - 12 multilocks
stasis - 13 multilocks
deflective - 17 multilocks
absorbtion - 12 multilocks
no shields - 6 sonic
stasis - 9 sonic
deflective - 6 sonic
absorbtion - 14 sonic
no shields - 8 quills
stasis - 9 quills
deflective - 15 quills
absorbtion - 8 quills
no shields - 5 arcs
stasis - 7 arcs
deflective - 5 arcs
absorbtion - 10 arcs
So against standard ISDF, you want to go deflective against units, but walkers and assaults will still maul you with blast/plasma, I think the ISDF gun tower is also energy based.
And against scions, you want to go absorbtion, and render almost all of their force less effective except maulers and lancers?
This is why ISDF VS Scions I always pair a chain turret with a laser turret. If I have GTs, I put chain or pummel turrets to take care of absorption. The pummel is more an anti mauler thing.
Yea, Maulers are very mean. Lasers won't do a thing to their heavy armor, pummel would have to be the option.
I did some playing around with armor testing.. nothing scientific.
On the Scion side, I found that Plasma Cannon, Ion Gun(I've yet to find a use for this), and Stinger are absolutely pathetic against heavy armor units.
On the ISDF side, the minigun and lasers were very slow to kill heavy armors, but everything else seemed to do ok.
Stock, the ISDF seems better equipped to handle armored vehicles than the Scions. Sentries are fast, but they don't seem to be able to take down much, and without an option to the ion gun, they seem limited.
Thinking whether sonic, quill, or arc is good to go on warriors and scouts.
Hrm, I'm offtopic since my original topic got solved.
Sentries are not really useful against anything but a scout. Don't underestimate the power of ion gun vs. a lightly armored scout. Ion gun can take a scout down as fast as laser can. If you're fighting a scion scout with absorbtion shielding, then use gauss instead -- gauss owns abs.
Chain turrets are usually the best ones to have since they'll really hurt maulers and anything equipped with absorbtion shields. If you're going against a human player he can equip deflection shields to make chainguns and missiles ineffective but then he will get owned by blast or laser.
If you want a decent anti-mauler strategy, then MITS mines are great for these -- add them onto a tank that already has chain and MDM mortar and you can kill a mauler in about 10 seconds without any other help. If you are the scions than go with EMP lockdown -- you can also fire it at the ground while moving in order to gain a speed boost. These will stop maulers dead in their tracks and make them into sitting ducks for turrets/GTs
As for what to put on a warrior -- quill is usually only effective as an early game weapon. It's pretty decent but its inferior compared to sonic blast and arc cannon. Sonic blast is neat because it does lots of damage and can slightly deflect slow incoming shots (like assault plasma cannon), its morphed version "sonic wave" is great for pushing builders, scavengers, and assault tanks if you want to get them somewhere fast. Most people just use arc though because it's an instant hit weapon, arc can outrange turrets, but the assault version of arc isn't worth using because it uses a ton of ammo.
As for taking down heavy armor, go with maulers. They're weak against rocket tanks that use salvo, but you can simply use an arc/emp warrior to destroy these.
I've used Sonic Wave in combat to shoot an enemy with their own ordinance.
Gauss, is that a multi-only weapon?
I didn't test chaingun since I thought it would be the same as the minigun. Minigun and ion gun take forever to go through heavy armor. The ion gun just seems very weak unless the target has no armor(warrior/ISDF scout).
The opposing AI also seems better than my own AI units, as I remember warriors being problem ships during my campaign as ISDF, then I get them as a Scion, and 10 of them can't even take out 3 tanks and a gun turret. Course that could be a grouping problem when you get 10 together and they bunch up and become stupid :) Tell them to attack, and they just move around in a circle dancing mostly, and get shot at til they die down to about 4 warriors, then they start fighting.
Thinking about putting sonic or arc on everything possible for scion. For ISDF, SP stabber for the sabbers, pummel for the turrets, Plasma for walkers.