Battlezone Universe

Battlezone Universe => Battlezone 2 => Topic started by: AHadley on April 10, 2009, 10:15:28 AM

Title: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on April 10, 2009, 10:15:28 AM
GTK Radiant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GtkRadiant)?

GTK Radiant is a Q3 map-making program, one that I used to use in my Q3 days and know the controls of. Since I am so utterly awful working in any conventional modelling programs, is there any way I can get either a modelling program that works in the same way (Brush-drawing, download it and draw stuff if you don't know what that means) or some way I can convert sets of brushes into .xsi and .msh models?
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: mrtwosheds on April 10, 2009, 11:53:21 AM
Never used it, don't know.
The original program used to make bz2 models is no longer available.
Just about everybody uses different programs and techniques to create bz2 models...

If gtk radiant can export .3ds or .obj or some versions of .x then you can probably use it to make models and then convert them to .xsi
This will probably not be as simple as you would hope it would be.
here are some links to useful tools

http://www.4shared.com/file/78263679/8afd6c9f/3de_155kg.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/78263679/8afd6c9f/3de_155kg.html)
http://www.4shared.com/file/78263526/65733b12/LithUnwrap.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/78263526/65733b12/LithUnwrap.html)
http://www.4shared.com/file/78264129/6f12b6e6/X2XSI.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/78264129/6f12b6e6/X2XSI.html)

Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on April 10, 2009, 02:32:41 PM
Useful as I expect or not, I am more skilled in GTK at the moment than I will ever be in gmax, so I'll give the converters a try.

Thanks, twosheds. :)
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: mrtwosheds on April 10, 2009, 07:44:35 PM
3d exploration can convert a variety of formats.
The xsi version it converts to is NOT the one bz2 uses.
I use it to convert .3ds or .obj to its .x format.
This I then convert to .xsi with x2xsi, it will probably still need a little notepad tweaking after this before it will open in threed.
Lithunwrap is a UV mapping program, it can also make objects in .3ds and .obj (and other formats) I use this to make my models! It is not an over complex program.

It is possible that I am taking a complex route to get to my end result, It took a while to figure out how to do it.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: OvermindDL1 on April 11, 2009, 11:24:26 PM
For note, brushes are not actually models but rather a way of partitioning things.  Apps like Q3 and earlier used it because if was very efficient.  On modern hardware brushes are now very inefficient.  BZ2 does not use brushes, and most likely anything made using brushes will be inefficient (due to the huge amount of subdivided and booleaned geometry), but most likely could still be made to work if it could be converted to a conventional polygon model format.
(http://www.overminddl1.com/image_scripts/image_sig.php?type=ODL1signitures&image/sig.gif)
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Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: Nielk1 on April 11, 2009, 11:56:58 PM
Source Engine uses brushes I think.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on April 12, 2009, 09:33:10 AM
Yeah, it uses BSP map files, which are brush-based... but if BZ2 won't let me use them, I may have to find a really easy modeller package. Oh well, worth a try.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: TheJamsh on April 12, 2009, 12:34:12 PM
I used a CAD program called Pro Desktop 8 which i learnt in school (and quite well)

Made a basic ship in it and Warfreak then imported it into max and had hundreds of thousands of polygons (and we are talking what... 30 faces maximum in ProD). The 'optimization' tool came in handy.

Woulkdnt be able to make anything decent in it though.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on April 12, 2009, 12:48:49 PM
I've always found ProDesktop (I used to have 2000i) a little clunky and blocky for me... but then, I can't model for *Service Trucks* Fake swears not intended to annoy Steeveeo, that's an added bonus
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: mrtwosheds on April 12, 2009, 02:44:34 PM
QuoteWouldn't be able to make anything decent in it though.
Don't know that program either, but I can tell you that you do not need a particularly modern program, complexity is not what makes a good model for bz2, models need to be simple, and stuff has to be done bz2's way.
I use that lithunwrap...its doesn't even claim to be a modeling program, just a UV mapping tool, I like it because its simple and its quite good at UV mapping, which is important when making the sort of low poly models bz2 likes.
It has a handful of primitive shapes and a minimal amount of tools to manipulate them with, and wastes no cpu cycles making the interface look all pretty.
A modern program will be packed full of stuff you can't and don't need to use and be very good at making models with 10,000 polys or more, which is entirely useless for bz2. You have to think about the poly count all the time when making bz2 models, a few extra here or there make allot of difference when they are built in large groups with all the base at the same time.
The programs do not make the models good, you do.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: Warfreak on April 12, 2009, 03:30:46 PM
If you ARE using a newer program, helps to know how to make a model from scratch, that way you get exactly what you want. (by this i mean you must be able to create verts and position them as needed and create faces from those. Its exact and provides as a great way to watch the poly count.)
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: OvermindDL1 on April 13, 2009, 11:29:01 PM
Actually Source does use bushes for map creation due to its Quake origins, however the map compiler converts it to this weird bsp/octree thing.  Octree are generally the standard nowadays since they are more efficiency for how modern video cards render things, and of course there are a few specialized types for specific scenes as well.
(http://www.overminddl1.com/image_scripts/image_sig.php?type=ODL1signitures&image/sig.gif)
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Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: TheJamsh on April 24, 2009, 06:37:29 PM
Is lithunwrap free?

Pro Desktop is CAD modelling software. I imported a simple cube with some chamfered edges into 3DS max from Pro D (using IGES format i think...) and it came out around 6000 polys. easy to rid yourself off with the 'optimize' tool but still...
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: VSMIT on April 24, 2009, 06:44:42 PM
Yes, Lithunwrap is free.  But if you have 3DS Max or Blender, you don't really need to use it.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: TheJamsh on April 24, 2009, 06:58:08 PM
im going to have to contribute to models at some stage. cant expect or rely on two guys to make everything especially when they are loaded up with tasks as it is.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: NoStr0m0 on May 05, 2009, 07:14:56 PM
The only program I know that lets you paint a model is ZBrush.
But it's commercial, and has a price.

But it's amazing at detailing stuff. Head over to www.zbrushcentral.com and have a look.
Most are, unfortunately organic models because they need the most details to make them believable. But from what I know, you can get lower poly models out of it, and keep the high poly as a normal or texture map.
The most common procces is modeling something low poly, UV mapping it, then getting it into ZBrush, detailing the hell out of it, then save what you made as a texture, although you can save it as a model. The texture thus saved is applied to the low poly object at the beginning, creating very detailed appearing low poly models.

So check it out if you're curious.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on May 05, 2009, 07:27:43 PM
Wow, thanks, I'd better give it a try :-D
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: Nielk1 on May 05, 2009, 08:30:20 PM
Deep Paint and Photoshop CS4 let you paint on models.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on May 05, 2009, 08:39:12 PM
And I have seen the price on zBrush.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: NoStr0m0 on May 06, 2009, 07:55:26 AM
:))

The reaction was worth the wait.

You could always resort to piracy if you don't intend to use what you make commercially.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on May 06, 2009, 03:47:29 PM
DON'T SAY THAT HERE!
That's what PMs are for :P
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: TheJamsh on October 09, 2009, 02:22:02 PM
zBrush looks bloody brilliant. Hint Hint
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on October 10, 2009, 03:43:55 PM
What is the name of the original program anyway
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on October 10, 2009, 03:55:28 PM
Read threads before posting in them, please. If you had bothered to look at the first post you would know.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on October 11, 2009, 10:08:33 PM
is it gmax?
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: Clavin12 on October 12, 2009, 12:05:25 AM
Is there a model texture painting app for free?
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: VSMIT on October 12, 2009, 02:24:42 AM
If you mean something like zBrush, no.

If you mean something like Photoshop, yes. (http://files.uberdownloads.com/apps/gimp/index.php)
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on October 12, 2009, 07:01:12 AM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE on October 11, 2009, 10:08:33 PM
is it gmax?

I said read the first post. Are you completely incapable?
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on October 16, 2009, 01:52:23 AM
nope still cant find the name of the old program used to make bz2 models
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: mrtwosheds on October 16, 2009, 05:36:14 PM
The program originally used to make bz2 models is simply not available any more.
It has evolved into the current version of softimage.xsi, It does things very differently now than 10 years ago.
That is why all of us here have developed our own techniques for recreating the old .xsi format that bz2 uses.
If you are looking for something that's simple to use and just saves a model as a working, completed xsi  then you are probably out of luck.

I make models in lithunwrap, a uvmapping program, it is old, primitive, but fairly simple, but then I have to use 3dexploration, x2xsi and notepad to turn its models into functioning .xsi's. As far as I know I am the only person daft enough to bother doing all this, but I find most modern modeling programs are irritatingly over-functioned with illogical user interfaces using incomprehensible jargon to describe things I just don't need to use.




Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on October 16, 2009, 07:50:29 PM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE on October 16, 2009, 01:52:23 AM
nope still cant find the name of the old program used to make bz2 models

It's right there in the first post! First two words! It's even a link!
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: mrtwosheds on October 16, 2009, 08:15:25 PM
But you cannot use it to make bz2 models...gq radiant that is, its for quake.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: AHadley on October 16, 2009, 08:17:25 PM
GTK is idTech3's mapping engine. And it's possible to convert BSP files to OBJ models, which can... eventually... be turned into XSIs. I'm not a modeller. I'm not using it.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: Clavin12 on October 16, 2009, 09:50:17 PM
Anyobdy seen this? http://photosynth.net/ apparently its free.

Or this? http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=7882 site under construction...free as well.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: VSMIT on October 16, 2009, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: Clavin12 on October 16, 2009, 09:50:17 PM
Anyobdy seen this? apparently its free.
Seen air?  I personally haven't seen air.  But yes, it is free.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: Clavin12 on October 16, 2009, 10:30:17 PM
note the addition of links. I happen to have the flu so please cut some slack.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: bigbadbogie on October 17, 2009, 12:00:20 AM
Quote from: VSMIT on October 16, 2009, 10:25:54 PM
Seen air?  I personally haven't seen air.  But yes, it is free.

Never been outside on a cold morning then?
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: Clavin12 on October 17, 2009, 01:21:38 AM
The second one could be used for making props, especially now that we can take high poly counts.
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: bigbadbogie on October 17, 2009, 07:14:09 AM
Just because we have a higher poly count doesn't stop the fact that high poly models slow down the game.

The old limit was there for a reason...
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: VSMIT on October 17, 2009, 07:51:07 AM
Quote from: bigbadbogie on October 17, 2009, 07:14:09 AM
The old limit was there for a reason...
Because the engine couldn't handle anything larger than that?
Title: Re: Unconventional Modelling Software
Post by: TheJamsh on October 17, 2009, 04:00:13 PM
Mainly old versions of direct X were slower and transferring data to the graphics card, and graphics cards were slower. The actual game engine itself probably couldn't care less... BZ2 was done AGES ago afterall.

Im pretty sure if it was released tomorow all the models would be high poly. Pandemic has probably developed a better engine by now, or someone else (keeps obsession with UE3.5 to himself)