"Avatar"
Absolutely unbelievable! When I was perusing this board and saw it SPAMMED all over with that name I'd asked myself it it could be THAT "Avatar".... COW I, COW II, COW III, PFA, etc. etc... but told myself NO WAY, he vanished from the face of BZ way way too many years ago... BUT I tell ya what, you're doin one hell of a good job posin' him! ;-)
(EDIT) I actually still have all those old COW maps. I remember whining to Av that I could not find p-ups, and he sent me an advance map pic of COW2...
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/COW.jpg)
I might scrounge around and see if I can find the ORIGINAL, real world PHOTOGRAPH of that BZ-SUIT, since as I recall there have been skeptics as to the authenticity of the pic. If there are any doubters on this pic I'll be posting, look at the bottom of the pic, it ended up being one of the disappointing flaws of the suit/project. I'm 6'4" tall, and like most everythig for above averge ht peeps, the "pants" were made TOO SHORT! I can't think of too many people that would SPOOF "high-waters"! ;-)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/NSDF_pilot.jpg)
I guess if I post the pic my wife took of "TheWall" greeting the REAL WORLD "scrapmkr" at my front door, it might add a little believe-ability to it!???
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/Wally_world.jpg)
OMG nice!
I want one! :o
.....HAHAHA, and I thought I was a fanboy extraordinaire HAHAHA..........
Wally even used the same number of poly's as the in game pilot!
That was hilarious when I saw the pic's. Did you actually make a tank too or was that someone else too?
Eddy
aka FirBirGir
Actually BFT... could be an interesting colaboration of merging talents, tools and fanboy extraordinaire's... Are the models you've created CAD models (as opposed to POLY models). It might take a lot of creativity on how to actually pull it off, BUT I have in my basement a CNC Lathe and CNC Mill... CAD/CAM software, that I can program anything with enough effort.... perhaps bringing one of your models to the REAL world? Actually, on a low poly POLY model, I could even machine one of those up.
RE: POLY COUNT :lol: made modeling it easier ;-)
I tried CAD modeling a Griz way back with no good reference, but never made one in RL.
Awesome! :-D
Hi Wallie,
All my models are done in SketchUp. However I can export to most any popular format, (dwg, 3ds, VRML) directly or otherwise.
Hehe, if it was to be done with foam, etc. I would certainly would want to do something closer to the original. My models are an attempt to be a little more realistic which make them similar, but look quite a bit different than the game's
I have just recently installed SketchUp7, haven't really used it though, pretty much just installed it to get an overview of it, but cold easily use it to import/export geometry. I have/use Rhino3D (4.0) now/primarily which handles 3DS well, (have written some CAM/CNC apps for it) and have other 3D CAD/CAM software. I presently don't have any way of exporting the original BZ models myself. Might be interesting to dabble with, see if it can go anywhere. If nothing else, it might be interesting to do some full blown CAD (NURBS) models.
Any sort of low(er) density material would be ideal for my desktop (educational/training) type CNC equipment (http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/EMCO%20Mill-Lathe/EMCOPCMill-Lathe55.jpg (http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/EMCO%20Mill-Lathe/EMCOPCMill-Lathe55.jpg)), they'll cut virtually anything with the right tooling and enough patience, but they're clearly not heavy-duty production type machines (I've done some bronze, aluminum and mild steel). (Laughing... we need to get somone with a (large) CNC router, I'll make the code to cut-out the polys of a Griz/Grendel out of partical board, and we can make a "life size" one! ;-)).
"MAYBE" I need to make a set of vacuum moulds, and start producing some Desktop models for the BZ junkies (IE - BFT, etc.)!
'spose I' (we're) gettin' "off-topic"???. Any moderators wanna move this digressing topic to a new thread?
It deserves a topic of its own, so I'll try to split it for us.
Update: Success! 8-)
Heh heh - nice suit - but how does it stand up to minigun fire? Pics of ballistic tests requested... :-D
I've always thought it would be neat to have a little set of desktop models of the battlezone vehicles.
Quote from: ssuser on December 08, 2009, 02:25:32 PM
I've always thought it would be neat to have a little set of desktop models of the battlezone vehicles.
Ooh, that'd be nice. There's always papercraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_model)...
Wallie,
Sketchup has evolved enormously in the last 2 years. It used to be a simple, quick 3D app for architects to use in front of clients or to whip something up when a client wanted an 'idea'.
However, once Google bought @Last Software, the community is now flooded with ingenious Ruby plugins, so SU is now a beautiful and powerful program. . but still super easy to get started. Approaching software like Solid Works and Autodesk's 3D Max . . . without the render capability. However, there are SO many free rendering engines like Indigo and Blender, it's almost a sin to pay money.
Here's a model I just finished a week or so ago. I would never have dreamed doing this in SketchUp 4 years ago. . .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/SurfaceTension1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/LightDinner.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/DETAIL3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/StillWater.jpg
You still got those high poly BZ models? :D
Quote from: TheWall on December 07, 2009, 07:42:54 AM
"Avatar"
Absolutely unbelievable! When I was perusing this board and saw it SPAMMED all over with that name I'd asked myself it it could be THAT "Avatar".... COW I, COW II, COW III, PFA, etc. etc... but told myself NO WAY, he vanished from the face of BZ way way too many years ago... BUT I tell ya what, you're doin one hell of a good job posin' him! ;-)
I have NEVER been accused of posing myself... the whole concept boggles my mind... :)
I never left BZ, it's been a constant friend and companion over the years.
It IS me, the one and the same, as I've found no takers for my offer to switch lives... :)
As proof of identity I offer such tidbits as this:
Cow2 map, Team Battlezone bumblers crawling all over it...
Singinius: "Avatar is FLYING around the map on a surfboard! How do I get one? I want one!"
Avatar: "Hit CONTROL-B"
:evil: :lol: :evil:
Oh was he mad at me! It took him ages to find a ship since he was pretty new to BZ at the time.
(I was actually in one of Cheeto's 'surfing pilot' ships, found at the very top of two tall spires. Very cool looking leaning into the turns...)
***
You have a CNC in your basement? You lucky b*****d... (that was my best Monty Python voice, how did it sound?) :-D
All I have is a whole hard drive filled with BZ ships and buildings in .3DS format...
:evil:
I've looked into emachineshop.com but it's horribly expensive for a single unit... but still, I could get it in aluminum... :) Realistically I figured some day, when spare time comes in a can, I'd just grab some sheet styrene and start making models. I desperately want a Razor for my Desk at work... complete with scorch marks and bullet dings...
Oh, don't pay this guy any mind. He's been going on about how he's the real Avatar for years now. Poor fellow...he must have bailed out one too many times...
well ya BUMBLER, get me some of that BZ stuff in .3DS file format, and shiz-tuff might just start happenin' ya never know. Can't make promises if/when it'd get done, but you'd be dole'ing out this stuff to the same guy that made a RL BZ-Pilot suit, who's lookin for something "interesting" to use those dust collectors in the basement for...
Don't know if I have enough around, if not I might have access to some.... but I've got bronze, and when it polished up it looks an awful lot like GOLD... might be special to have a GOLD GRIZ.... or even one of 'dem Razors...
SAMPLE (of a small piece I made out of that Bronze)
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/EMCO%20Mill-Lathe/Coke.jpg
Quote from: Avatar on December 08, 2009, 07:55:58 PM
You have a CNC in your basement?
John Cleese all the way through.
Quote from: TheWall on December 08, 2009, 09:27:26 PM
well ya BUMBLER, get me some of that BZ stuff in .3DS file format, and shiz-tuff might just start happenin' ya never know. Can't make promises if/when it'd get done, but you'd be dole'ing out this stuff to the same guy that made a RL BZ-Pilot suit, who's lookin for something "interesting" to use those dust collectors in the basement for...
Don't know if I have enough around, if not I might have access to some.... but I've got bronze, and when it polished up it looks an awful lot like GOLD... might be special to have a GOLD GRIZ.... or even one of 'dem Razors...
Or fanboy keychain do-dads. . . :lol:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/kc.jpg)
Yea, Blackdragon, I have em all.
/me pictures Battlezone Monopoly pieces.
Pimpin model.
Hey BFT, if you ever make the chinese "Yeti" tank, I want the model :D
Ohhh, I want that keychain... that's what I'm talking about. Remember the little Tonka trucks, the metal ones that came separately and in sets, with the bulldozers, payloaders and such? If you could make the models in just that size, they'd would be perfect. I'm not sure how you could do the original colors - paint might look cheesy on plastic - but you could use decals for the detailing.
Wall. . .without researching it, I don't know the proper term, but what's the resolution ability of your CRC machine? Or how intricate or detailed can you cut?
That coke bottle is tiny, and has the vertical divots in it the bottle does, and the coca-cola is raised lettering, so it looks fairly decent resolution-wise. I'm not sure any CNC will do the little grooves and things in that keychain model but I'd chew them into it to have such a thing... :)
Awesome... I would of course provide my own stock... and while I mentioned aluminum earlier I'm now thinking ferrous, with a trick magnetic stand.
After all, they're HOVER tanks, right? What kind of awesome desk display would that make, a Grizzly hovering over the stand??? Ack, I gave myself chills...
-Av-
OK, this is driving me nuts. Let's say Wally can kick out a decent Grizzly model... How many of us would actually put up the money for the stock and/or his time/trouble?
Looks like finding material for sale on the internet isn't really easy, but I did find:
http://www.rigidfoammachining.com/carving-foam.html
They show a block of their maximum density foam that's 16" x 24" x 4" @ $79.50 USD. Seems to me that would make a bunch of Grizzlies... :) 4" tall is a good sized table model, or tall enough for a bunch of keychains...
Wally, if you're serious about this and could make me a bunch of toys to enjoy in my senility :) I'll order the materials and have them shipped to you. I'd prefer something along the lines of styrene as I have a ton of experience with it, it's easy to paint and add pieces to... Then again doing them in metal would be awesome AND make for a good master for vacumn forming or molding.
I'm starting to picture a little remote controlled Golem wandering around, maybe with that Dinosaur Toy innards in it that lets it guard... swap out the sounds for "MOOOOVING" and "CRUSSSHHHING ENEMY"... :)
-Av-
Well, I would make it out of something magnetic, and make a nice ringed magnet stand. Designed so that the tank is held in place/over the air by a slanted (like a satellite dish) base magnet. Literally hovering over the air.
I can't remember what the resolution of the machine is... all I remember is, that when I did see it, it was not a concern, something like .01mm I think... 3 three-thousandths. BUT that being said, I think the bigger issue is.... Tooling size, smallest practical radius I have encountered is .0075" and thats rare... the most common smallest radius is .015625" or .03125 (1/32") diameter. THEN the most reasonable way to use a tool tip that small is to have a taper on it of about 15 degrees. .031 dia ball nose tools can be used on a straight tip, but they get pretty brittle in carbide. THEN the next biggest factor is when you get to tooling that small in dia. a LOT of RPM ("speed") (IE - Dremel like speed) 30K +/-5K is best. SLOWER can be used, but the feed rate rate needs to slow proportionately.... the present max RPM of the spindle is about 1/10th of that @ 3500 RPM. I've already drawn up some plans to make a homemade spindle multiplier, but that project is just about as far along as the tanks are ;-)
BOTTOM line, size of the tool tip is the biggest factor, and that is realistically limited to about .031" dia, and ideally with a 15 degree taper for strength to the tip (if its being cut in a hard material). First time looking at it in detail, to most people, it would look like .031" dia ball nose tool would not provide enough detail, but the truth is, there is little out there that is done with smaller.
The Coca-Cola decoration was cut with a .062" dia tool, and is not as good as it could/should be. And as a reference, the Coke bottle is about the size of the last to knuckles on the average guys little finger (mine).
------------------------------------------ EDIT ------------------------------------------
Just looked it up, and the machine resolution is 0.5 micro-meters.... or... 0.5 micrometer = 0.000 01968 inch.
And, if any sort of quantity is a target, SOME SORT moulding is the way to go. THEN the BIGGGGggg decisions come in (that I am not so good at) as to what material and method is best to use. OTHER things to consider, the type of mould, how many parts (2 part, split is most common), AND access to the cavity being made from the direction of the tooling.
And, ya... I do have an interest in doing something like this. I'm presently one of the ecconomies statistics, so I do have more than average time at my disposal, although I try to do something that feels productive (making BZ ICONS? figuratively speaking;-))
There is a capacity here to make these cyber objects "REAL" objects. Someone needs to pop me some BZ geometry so I can play with it!
Quote from: Avatar on December 09, 2009, 04:19:55 PM
OK, this is driving me nuts. Let's say Wally can kick out a decent Grizzly model... How many of us would actually put up the money for the stock and/or his time/trouble?
I would. I'd really like to have a model Grizzly.
If ya really wanna drive yourself nuts on "limited run" models..................
http://www.freemansupply.com/video.htm
Browse around the site... but don't do it unless you have time, and visine.
***********************************************
More info on my mill... its 3 Axis X, Y, Z with the spindle oriented like a drill-press. The Maximum work envelope/machine travel is 190mm(7.48") x 125mm(4.92") x 190mm(7.48") So that gives you a little bit of an idea of how the tooling would approach a piece.... imagine trying to cut a piece sitting on a drill-press table with the spindle of a drill-press. Anything more than that takes fixture planning, machining strategies, and what or what NOT is a reasonable compromise in the desired detail.
Well. . .my thoughts were that it might be easier to just run them through a milling type process, (Like your setup) instead of a 'limited run' involving some added injection mold process, since the BZ and BZ2 remaining community is extremely small. Also, exposing something like this through email archives could get out of hand.
I mean, I was thinking very small numbers. . .8-16, certainly no more than 30. . . especially if you used a 'nicer' metal like brass, silver or even lower-gold. But of course there would certainly be a deposit :wink:
But . .anyway. . .my thoughts of a small key chain "charm" would be a badge of remembrance if nothing else. Many of us have a few dozen hours playing BZ/BZ2/BZE :wink: so a little reminder of that chunk of your life won't be forgotten. 8-)
(trying to model a Griz "right now" from in game screen snap-shots, which means a WHOLE lot of BEST GUESSES... sure would like to have a 3DS file........................ ;-) )
Oh my, you'll find out it's an evil mix of your ability with the software, your idea of what the ship should REALLY look like, and your devotion to maintaining the feel of the game.
It's a challenge.
It's a purely graphical analog of what Dx has been trying to do for the past few years.
Quote from: TheWall on December 09, 2009, 06:45:11 PM
(trying to model a Griz "right now" from in game screen snap-shots, which means a WHOLE lot of BEST GUESSES... sure would like to have a 3DS file........................ ;-) )
You need to PM me somewhere to send them, that's all... the rest is easy. :)
-Av-
Quote from: TheWall on December 09, 2009, 06:45:11 PM
sure would like to have a 3DS file........................ ;-) )
Me too...
(I only have the source code, not the original assets.)
Quote from: Ultraken on December 09, 2009, 07:41:08 PM
Me too...
(I only have the source code, not the original assets.)
Um, seriously? PMing...
-Av-
Totally serious. :)
I've been known to be very serious. :mrgreen:
Can't imagine I'm thinking this, let alone saying it.. believe it or not, there's a "lot" more triangles on that Griz than my imagination had ever dreamt there was! It's also interesting to me, that what look like symetrical, rectangular panels, are not trangulated symetrically...
To make a Grizzly "solid", it will need to be made in at least... Cannons, Turret, Lateral Engines, Engine Pod, and quite probably the Top Center two Engines on the Pod, all in seperate pieces. With that being said, if they were made with posts for assembly, it would allow for those pieces to be rotatable on those posts...
Interesting.... I can see a prototype ("solid") being done out of a high(er) density urethane board, very similar in a lot of respects to about poplar. Back in the day, we'd actually called it "plastic wood"... I have some of that too...
OK, I know this doesn't look like anything remarkable to anyone that has ever played the game of Battlezone, "BUT" for me this is a first... The Grizzly has just taken its FIRST STEP into the "Real World". It is no longer "just" a Poly/Mesh Model... its a real live NURBS/CAD Model now!!! WOO-HOOO!!! With enough patience, it is now machinable.
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/AvTank-Rhino3D.jpg
If you were going to make more than a few, it seems to me that making a good mould and then using plastic injection to make the models would be the way to go. That way, you could always make more on demand later. You could leave a hollow space in the model for for a simple voice module too, as Av suggests - with a snap on cover and a hidden button the models could be made to play the original voiceovers.
Hmm, I could see having a complete set of these in a nice box, like the Tonka Toy sets of old...
I think it would be a good idea to make a mold to provide plastic versions (read:less expensive), but offer the choice of having one made of metal, though more expensive.
OK... I've been thinking about how to approach this a little too much....
#1 "problem" - The biggest problems in creating (milling) moulding CAVITIES are vertical/near-vertical surfaces, AND "sharp corners" (IE - effectively if not "zero radius"). And in looking at this project from that perspective, that almost defines the Grizzly geometry.
That being said, I think that creating a mould cavity is ultimately the best approach (makes me my own worst enemy, ehh?), and I think the cavities should be created with the intent of vacu-forming parts (for economy and relatively ease(ier) mfg.) with a nominal thickness of about 1-2 mm (.040-.080"). In order to solve the vertical/near-vertical surfaces AND the sharp-corners issue, making each of the moulding components (each "half" or there abouts) out of a approximately a handful of sub-sections with alignment pins, coming together in the sharp corners, and screwed/bolted(?) together.
Size-wise the .3ds Grizzly is 18.9mm(or about .75") long (tip of cannon to tip of engine). 2x would get us roughly Hotwheels size.. 4x roughly a typical 1/32 Scale (car) model size...
Just air'n things out for in a public forum..............
Life size or no size.
Very nice Wall, I see you've chosen to follow the Grizz close to the game's version.
You're right about the polys. I remember being stunned when Dx told me how many polys the Grizz was in the game.
By the way. . . what do you surmise the overall dimensions the Grizz is. . . in its universe?
Quote from: sabrebattletank on December 10, 2009, 09:33:36 AM
Life size or no size.
Then I vote for life size made of pewter.
TheWall,
If you use dummy's 3ds max importers, you can get any model in the game.
http://www.battlezoneclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2577
:cry: me no gots StudioMax at all... aint dat just a brick in the wall!?!?!
Quote from: eddywright on December 10, 2009, 03:46:35 PM
Then I vote for life size made of pewter.
No, no, no, no
If we are going full scale, I say fully functional as well.
-----------
Also what I meant by 'dimensions' was, What do players think the Grizz is in the BZ universe? I'm thinking "
20 feet long by 10 feet wide and about 9 feet tall".
Avatar would be the one to answer that. I know if you go by pilots they aren't that big but by in game units they are a bit bigger. Weird eh?
I would say BFT is fairly on the money as far as dimensions go - the Golems have to be at least 20 feet high. As far as weight, I wonder if due to biometal construction they aren't a fair bit lighter then conventional tanks of the same size - the hover ability lends credence to that idea. The recycler must be a heavy mother, though - they must have had some killer rockets to lift all that tonnage into orbit.
As to mass, in 'my' reality of the BZ universe, scrap is in the Titanium ballpark since it is a homogeneous mix of exotic, ultra light metals and nano sites or cells.
As to the soldier, he is grossly out of scale. . . on the order of at LEAST 2X.
Stand a soldier next to an obvious cockpit such as a Razor or or the Lander and it becomes humorous.
While I took this ss from around 400 'meters', there is some limited error because parallax projection, but the soldier will be >95% correct in relation to the Grendel behind.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/snipe3.jpg)
I think they had to make the pilots a bit large just so they would look good in the game.
You know what the BZ pilots remind me of - those little Lego spacemen you used to get in the moon vehicle kits way back in the 70s. Same basic style, squared off legs... maybe the modeler for these was a Legos fan. :-D
I think General BlackDragon was able to convert the TRO models to work in bz2 so he may be the one to ask about acquiring the original bz1 models in .3ds format. He converted the bz1 models into .xsi format so I'm assuming he could convert them into the format you are needing.
I like the idea of the magnetic hovertanks. I'd purchase one, especially if you started making bz2 models too.
Was looking again at comparable scales and noticed the Flanker's cockpit. It may have the most ridiculous scale difference to a soldier .
Hehe maybe you could get one leg in there :lol:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/untitled-1.jpg)
He's lying down? lol.
The visible area, from the outside, is the canopy not the entire cockpit. Granted the scaling does seem off regardless.
In persuing creating a mock-up of the Grizzly... I discovered the Poly-Model of the Griz has some very serious ASYMETRICAL flaws/errors (too many sessions of bumper tank!?). So, I've corrected the obvious errors.
I've ASS-U-ME'd all along that the intent of exporting the game geometry for existence in the real world, was to have it live in the real world as it actaully is/was in the game
QUESTION: (Poll?) Should the primary/initial intent of creating real world models be geared towards maintaining the integrity of the in game models?
reasons in my mind to keep it as in the game... it is what it is! it is in reality, what it is/was as seen in game play... eliminates the inevitable debates of OTHER interpretations (for better or worse).
Thoughts?
I'd say create one of each if possible to see which one turns out better. If members are wanting to purchase a model, it would give them a choice for a more realistic model or one that is identical to the ingame model.
Hope you're not asking me Wall. That's been more or less my point for the last 12 months. :-P
Reminds me of an AUDIOPHILE conversation/debate I was part of 20+ years ago... If you're playing back ROCK music that was played on PA (Klipsh) type speakers, what speakers give you the most faithful (re)production.. Speakers that FAITHFULLY reproduce the input signal, or Speakers as close to those that the signal was orginally played through...
The speakers affect the sound. The amp type is a part of the sound.
Look at how a club sets it up:
Guitar -> guitarist's amp -(microphone)-> club stuff.
Just playin :D
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/flames2.jpg)
Looks good.
With God as my witness, my 1.0 Grizzly had nowhere near that many thrusters ingame. I've posted screencaps of it along with the barrel oddities and people just give me blank looks...
Somewhere along the lines someone activated things that weren't in the original. I don't know who/what/when but to me that looks ridiculous...
Golem 1 to Golem 2:
"Look comrade, there goes another Grizzly lighting up the night..."
"Dah, it almost makes me sad to shoot them so easily..."
"Almost..."
BLAM
:evil:
I agree that vacu-forming would be the way to go, provided those that want models have the ability to put the pieces back together and paint them up, etc.. I'm thinking that's less of an available skill now than it was in my day. This is from someone who bought their first Enterprise in 1970 at the age of 8 years old... who added working landing gear to his Millenium Falcon (rotate the gun turrets to raise/lower) AND a fully detailed cockpit... and then added the two originally missing legs when they showed up in Empire...
For many I think a solid model would be more valuable.
Still, for Wally's part just producing the solid model to begin with would be enough. After that we could do a lot of different things, as that solid model would unlock a world of possibilities. I've done vacumn forming and cast resin models... and I still have my testor mini-airbrush (wonder if that still works...). :)
I also vote for model car size, fwiw... hot wheels size is too small to truly appreciate them. I'd actually like a Razor sized so I could build a 'working' cockpit...
I LOVE the idea about adding the voice tags... I can just see my Grizz growling "WHO'S NEXT?" or my Golem rasping out "ANOTHER IS CRUSHED". :)
-Av-
Here's my stable of BZ/E models and the comparative scales as I imagine them in a bit more realistic reality.
The graduation is in feet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/BZ4-f.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/BZ4-tt.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Cyberdactyl/BZ4-p.jpg)
I'd still love it if you made some versions of the BZ1 models that were 10-15k polies.
I'd love to see that Grizzly and Grendel in bz2. You make a high res Razor or Flanker?
I've have 4 others, Wolverine, Flanker, Bird of Prey Falcon and somewhere on a backup disk, the NSDF Turret, but they are in the 15-30% range of completion.
I get about 25% done and in many cases can't figure out a way to make them work even in a fanciful-scientific way. . . and quit. The Grendel was one of the extra painful ones, putting a turbo fan on a ship that moves around in a vacuum most everywhere it's used. I did throw some token oxygen feed tubes on the intake cowling, but even that is stretching it like hell.
As super-awesome as high-res models would be, they'd make the rest of the game look crappy by comparison. :D
For the Grizzly, the main cannon does look kind of small, but overall it looks good.
Quote from: Avatar on December 12, 2009, 04:32:55 PM
With God as my witness, my 1.0 Grizzly had nowhere near that many thrusters ingame. I've posted screencaps of it along with the barrel oddities and people just give me blank looks...
Somewhere along the lines someone activated things that weren't in the original. I don't know who/what/when but to me that looks ridiculous...
Golem 1 to Golem 2:
"Look comrade, there goes another Grizzly lighting up the night..."
"Dah, it almost makes me sad to shoot them so easily..."
"Almost..."
BLAM
is from someone who bought their first Enterprise in 1970 at the age of 8 years old... who added working landing gear to his Millenium Falcon (rotate the gun turrets to raise/lower) AND a fully detailed cockpit... and then added the two originally missing legs when they showed up in Empire...
For many I think a solid model would be more valuable.
Still, for Wally's part just producing the solid model to begin with would be enough. After that we could do a lot of different things, as that solid model would unlock a world of possibilities. I've done vacumn forming and cast resin models... and I still have my testor mini-airbrush (wonder if that still works...). :)
I also vote for model car size, fwiw... hot wheels size is too small to truly appreciate them. I'd actually like a Razor sized so I could build
I LOVE the idea about adding the voice tags... I can just see my Grizz growling "WHO'S NEXT?" or my Golem rasping out "ANOTHER IS CRUSHED". :)
-Av-
(Sorry for quote ending there... text return was a pain)
The demo version of BZ had the 5 point V-Thruster (as stated in the manual) and that is what I expected with the full version when I got it. Unfortunately, the full game or one of the patches broke the model in numerous ways and took away the full glory. The 5 point engine is supposed to give it insane speed and agility as compared to the Czar, and for the most part, does this well.
Will those thrusters be part of the machined model itself? I'd steer towards some blue LEDs where the thrusters would be attached to an on-off switch personally, just to keep them from sticking out of the model all the time.
My BDOG has a 76mm round firing down a 3.5 meter barrel.
That's pretty intense. Easily as nasty as any medium to large conventional earth side tank. An M1 Abrams is 120mm. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF3_7uf6msQ&feature=related#t=1m15s) I've put on a longer barrel to reduce the acceleration of the round getting to its muzzle velocity.
But still, one thing to consider, the Grizz is not pseudo-anchored to the ground like an earth-side tank. Also, I'm assuming the Grizz doesn't have the luxury of weighing anything close to an Abrams' 135,000 lbs. to offset the F=MA of the round. The rearward thrust is going to be considerable as it is. . make the cannon obnoxiously large like in the game, and you might as well laugh at physics and say the tanks carry fairy dust around that they sprinkle on solid projectiles to negate the mass. And use the cannon as a ship thrusting system as well.
Abrams vs. Grizzly..
Hard to tell, really. If the Abrams got a round off, I'd think the Grizzly would be in trouble.
Yea, but the BDOG has a few aces.
The Grizz is 100% self contained. . can survive in a vacuum or submerged in liquid. Can hover over water. . .or anything short of HII, can jump ravines of about 15 meters or more, and is framed/built with a few non-scrap element systems in about 8 seconds (at least in my reality :mrgreen:)
Projectiles in BZ and (to a lesser degree BZ2) have relatively low velocities compared to their Earth-based counterparts (150m/s for the AT-Stabber versus ~1000m/s for the M1A1 main gun), so the Grizzly's cannon may work more like a recoilless rifle or automatic grenade launcher firing high explosive anti-tank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_explosive_anti-tank) rounds instead of kinetic energy penetrators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy_penetrator). Its projectile is even called "rocket", which would make a lot of sense given the relatively small size, light weight, and hover suspension of most BZ vehicles.
The M1A1 has an overwhelming range advantage, with its 120mm smoothbore cannon capable of single-shot tank kills at 2500 meters (>1.5 miles). The AT-Stabber only goes out to 150 meters, and requires numerous hits to kill just about anything. The Grizzly is, however, much faster and more agile. :)
While the BZ1 version of the Pop Gun fires a rocket and the BZ2 version fires what looks like a Flash Cannon bolt, a "realistic" implementation of the weapon would most likely use an Explosively Formed Penetrator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_Formed_Penetrator). There's an interesting quote from a Washington Post article in the middle:
QuoteAn EFP eight inches in diameter threw a seven-pound copper slug at Mach 6, or 2,000 meters per second. (A .50-caliber bullet, among the most devastating projectiles on the battlefield, weighs less than two ounces and has a muzzle velocity of 900 meters per second.).[/url]
Pop gun was the early version of the Javelin. Not bad for a 30- year head start ;)
Same with the Abrams compared to the Grizzly. Imagine- Battlezone: Modern Warfare to get the gist of what I'm thinking. Steeveos (name spelling forgive me) Dark Matter bomb comes to mind...
And that's the thing about BZ, how much tech does the NSDF and the Soviets 'get' to reverse engineer in the late 60's? The game suggests it's a freaky mix of old tech and some advanced tech somehow gleamed from the scrap that was found. Or...possibly an easy out. . "area 51" tech brought into the arena.
What are the limits, high AND low? Some are too silly to consider, i.e. being able to hit a golf ball further than any weapon on the battlefield? Then again, some limits are too generous, being able to have unlimited propulsion, both anti-grav AND propellants. Being able to load totally different weapon systems on the fly. Being able to build 'unlimited ships' as long as you have scrap, and that scrap can take absolutely every single shape, conductivity, lattice structure, firmware element, tolerance, transparency, etc., etc., in a matter of seconds.
I've tried 'tighten' up on the wackiness, but the game throws too much of it at you, so the decision has to be made somewhere.
Probably not unlimited propulsion. What has been observed is unlimited, but I've flown for maybe 2 hours max before calling it quits. They may get a charge in between missions or simply recycled and remade into another shape size and type ;)
They all get their power from the geyser power source in BZ1. Every ship is powered geothermically. Which is what makes BZ2 so unbelievable- I can't say there is power coming into the tanks from anywhere. Instead, you make something that makes power.
???
Everything probably happens in between missions and such. Same thing as "you don't see comics characters taking a poo, now, do you?"
Quote from: bb1 on December 12, 2009, 11:06:18 PM
Everything probably happens in between missions and such. Same thing as "you don't see comics characters taking a poo, now, do you?"
I think some are doing it in their ships. I've sniped people then got into their ships, and many times it smelled like a mix of some college kid's dorm room dirty clothes bag and a baby's diaper after it ate 5 jars of stewed prunes. :-P :cry:
To avoid such smelly situations in strat games, you can play with the barracks option turned on, so there are latrines available. :-D
eh, I always thought of it as the ship's engines are mini nuclear reactors; when you step on the gas, radioactive material is pumped in, resulting in a controlled reaction(read:explosion directed in opposite direction of travel); when you let off, only a tiny amount of 'fuel' is pumped in, to keep the reaction going. That is why there is a giant explosion every time a ship is blown up: the fuel lines/storage are severed, resulting in all the fuel being 'dumped' into the reaction, hence, the explosion.
I guess you could see your hull as the amount of fuel you have; when you get low, you'd beter watch out!
just my opinion...
I always thought it was plasma engines, like Russia were actually developing back then.
I don't think we ever defined how the thrusters worked, but they do look like some kind of high-density plasma rocket.
I may be off base here, but I have the feeling there wasn't a whole lot of back and forth with engineers and physicists when developing the models, weapons and propulsion systems.
I 'm thinkin it was a lot more "Damn, that looks cool." type modeling. :mrgreen:
Czar doesn't have any jets at all- they use a completely different thruster design. Probably the same as found on the recy, MUF, and constructor. Probably an old design that uses the inherently antigravity elements of biometal rather than a jet as it is much slower and agile than the newer engines.
Muzzle velocity, thrusters? F=ma, inertia??? INERTIA for God's sake???
Ahem...
"biometal"
End of discussion.
:)
C'mon, it's all biometal.
It's all mass to energy and back again with no loss, no real mechanism, and no harmful radiation. Step on the gas in a Czar and in infinitesimal amount of biometal converts to energy, reorients the space around the ship, and off you go. The limits imposed were so the pilots can keep their sanity inside something that just moves with no feeling of thrust. The Chinese ships grasped this concept wonderfully.
Jets are as useless as those prevously mentioned turbines, and would only be a major disadvantage to a war ship on a dark moon. I'd even go as far as saying that traitor Arkin probably fitted the Grizzly with them so the Golems had something to shoot at from across the map... :-P
Actually, working for the Government as I do, I can see some General asking "Where's the ROCKETS on these dang things boy?", and some scientist being told to add thrusters just to make the idiot in charge happy.
So, OK, it's got thrusters, maybe to boost maneuverability. I still say five is still too many but OK, it's got them. The mechanics of it are they're specks of biometal converting to energy in the form of a plasma discharge...
As to ordnance, think biometal shells, rockets, and mortars.
Shoot a biometal shell from a biometal ship and the same thing happens. An infinitesimal amount of the shell's biometal converts to energy, reorients space and the thing takes off. Terms like 'shell', 'rocket', etc. were just the grunts way of trying to understand something beyond the limits of 50's technology. That shell is actually a mini-Tank with no pilot, life support, or weapons.
When that shell hits an infinitesimal amount converts to energy and BLAM, you have an explosion. Again, the limits were such that one ship wouldn't destroy whatever planet or moon you were on. Remember, humans have to use these things without killing themselves or attracting attention by blowing up Mars...
If an inertia-immune shell leaves an inertia-immune ship and hits another inertia-immune ship what sort of inertia issues would you have? Hah! Trick question! Inertia is on vacation where biometal is concerned... :-D
The speeds, maneuvering characteristics, and weapon strengths were all taken from Earth standard munitions and ships, so that humans could grasp and effectively use them in quick and vicious dogfights. This is the same reason they all handle the same despite varying Gravity conditions on the various planets and moons. The point is to make their handling and performance consistant, so the pilots would perform consistantly.
So there... :-P
(Read the SKYLARK series for ordnance that is basically metal converting to energy, and how they created various intensity shells that deliberately released only tiny fractions of the full energy available to make them usable...)
-Av-
You have opened the doors to Lice-Sized Biometal Robots that can destroy planets with a bobby pin tip sized ordinance..... in less than the time it takes you to blink. :P
Shhhh... those are still in the testing stage... :roll:
-Av-
Back to the modelling question.
IF Wall makes a master Grizzly I can crank out vacumn-formed stryene model 'kits' en masse.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT ONE???
I'd love to make and paint up a few of them and send them to George Collins, Andrew Goldman, and Will Stahl. (I'd make one for Ken but he'd just start adding things to it and before you knew it... well, you know...) :)
-Av-
UMMMmmmmmmmm... Where is it, that the RENDERING of the Grizzly came from, that is in BlackDragons' "Battlezone Classic" signature?
ME needs that tank........ or higher res pic(s)
QuoteIF Wall makes a master Grizzly I can crank out vacumn-formed stryene model 'kits' en masse.
And, what would you want... the actual "solid" or a mould (cavity)?
Quote from: Avatar on December 15, 2009, 05:18:00 PM
It's all mass to energy and back again with no loss, no real mechanism, and no harmful radiation.
-Av-
Basically full
E=mc2 capability. . . matter-antimatter energies :? Yeow!
The problem there is there's no real need to fight over it. All you need is a few pounds of it to provide the needs of the entire planet and any off-planet needs for, well. . . several lifetimes.
Quote from: Avatar on December 15, 2009, 05:30:06 PM
IF Wall makes a master Grizzly I can crank out vacumn-formed stryene model 'kits' en masse.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT ONE???
I definitely want one.
It'll depend on the price, though, and how much "assembly/painting" I have to do...
Quote from: Blunt Force Trauma on December 15, 2009, 05:46:21 PM
The problem there is there's no real need to fight over it. All you need is a few pounds of it to provide the needs of the entire planet and any off-planet needs for, well. . . several lifetimes.
Let's put this in modern terms...
Have you
seen Tiger Wood's wife? Why on EARTH would this man who has everything go after... well, you get my drift.
Humankind can not achieve anything without giving up something of equal value... er, wait... that's not quite what I meant. Bonus points if you know where it's from, but what I mean is...
Humans ain't NEVER happy with what they have...
:)
-Av-
All I'm saying is why risk major war over hundreds or thousands of kilos of 'scrap', when all you need is maybe a couple poundsto provide magnitudes more energy than you'll need even if you ramp up society and population by several magnitudes?
It's like fighting over air or sunlight on planet earth. . . makes no sense.
Well, maybe you don't want them to have the rice-sized planet busting bombs...
Or maybe you have bigger plans than powering a planet...
There are always issues when greed is a factor...
-Av-
Once 'they' have a few ounces of full E=mc2 capability, the MAD mentality is locked in spades.
But who cares.
Because it's then that energy interests are fully removed from the equation.
Then, all the other petty issues evolve to become the 'main' issues.
My main point goes back to the beginning.
There's just no need to fight over a substance that is found. . .by both sides, in the hundreds of pounds. . . when a few ounces can solve the energy needs for the entire planet, or its doom dozens of times over, into the distant future.
Also, I see no good use of 100% energy conversion in the game past endless fuel for the ship. All you need is a pellet the size of a BB to take out an entire base. And well, yes, I do see the comparable party trick of morphing a metal like substance
Quote from: Avatar on December 15, 2009, 05:30:06 PM
IF Wall makes a master Grizzly I can crank out vacumn-formed stryene model 'kits' en masse.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT ONE???
Personally, I'd want a master (read:metal) version. But that's just me.
Q: "Why throw precious scrap in the form of amunition at them?"
A: Well, quite simply, they die and can't have any of it.
Just playing/dabbling with doing some subjective interpretation/modeling (until I get something to get cutting on... (simpiler like a Scout))
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/GrizzlyCannon1.jpg)
Cool looking model but are those riflings on the outside of the barrel?
lol
....... It's not my doing... look at the textures on the Grizzly (like below, or in game)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/GrizzlyLeftSide.jpg)
With rifling at that twist rate either the projectile would come apart inside the barrel or the barrel would disintegrate.
They look like painted stripes to me.
Make sure you slide your side panels closed before battle.
So many people have made it easy for me to disable them by leaving them open. :wink:
Without ever applying any thought to it, I think I'd always intuitively assumed they were stripes too... UNTIL you look at the in-game model/textures closely where the stripes are rendered in a fashion which would suggest they represent the rendering of a cylindrical object, and the Wallpaper BlackDragon is using in his Signature.
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/GrizzlyWallpaper.jpg)
PERHAPS this is one compelling reason to make a model strictly per the IN GAME MODEL, and allow it to be textured/painted/decal'd per the IN GAME TEXTURES..................... UNLESS some remnant(s) of the ORIGINAL geometry/artwork which provided the basis of the textures/artwork can be made available for reference.
Oh, right. That does look like a segmented cylinder in a sort of "frame". Neat. :)
Yea Wall, I remember having a fairly heated debate about the Grendel 3 years ago or so.
Since the POV is at the starboard side of the ship, many thought that was the model's cockpit. The fact that there's ANY debate should tell anyone most any "interpretation" can be gleamed from the very low res textures.
One Sec...
Time to make you all drool.
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Myrodin/album_picphp.jpg)
For some reason, I can't find the "original" high res version of this that I used to make my signature. :|
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Myrodin/bzwall3.jpg)
Also, for all you bz1'ers that complain about orange tanks in BZ2, this is what the Sabre COULD have looked like:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Myrodin/EARLYSABRE.jpg)
It sure would be nice to have those high-resolution models and textures. They would make the game look like something from the 21st century. :-D
The white tank isn't so bad, though it would have been nice for the color trim to be a separate layer for multitexturing. The 512x512 texture sure is nice and sharp, though.
I wonder if you can dig up all those old assets someplace? *imagines ken sneaking into a CEO's office to download an old P8's HD data onto a thumbstick.
that pic wouldn't happen to be from bzc now would it? your sig looks more like a max ani, cause dead vehicles don't leave burned-out shells behind. very nice though...
OH, sweeeeeet! I just noticed you have the original comm tower! always wondered what had happened to it...
Closer to the texture(????)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/GrizzlyCannon2.jpg)
I also like the legitimacy of that scene. Lightning power on the moon, smart.
The original comm tower was ditched after the manual was written, so it was probably near release.
Those images are from a BZ Concept art package lying somewhere around here....
I wish BZC looked like that...
Quote from: General BlackDragon
Those images are from a BZ Concept art package lying somewhere around here....
those aren't copyright BzC? Oh man! If someone has those lying around somewhere, I might be able to make a ani in max for an intro or something...
Looks like Wall-E's been busy. :-)
Concept art, always a tease... :)
I see it more as a 'ribbed' barrel, not spiraled. The white lines on the game model are definately just 'painted stripes', but those on the concept tank look more like vertical ribs... in fact the whole thing looks like it might be set up to contract during recoil...
Anyway...
Lightning towers on the moon... I always thought that crater was the original NSDF base on the moon, Eagle's Nest one. This would have been the first place Arkin could get his hands on enough biometal to really experiment with, once the Scavs were turned loose on the scrap fields of the moon...
This makes that Comm Tower and those Lightning Towers prototypes, and indicates plans in place to journey to Venus... surely Arkin would have figured out that Venus wouldn't be too friendly to Solar Power...
***
You know... I've been looking at Ken's project as a way to preserve BZ1 for modern hardware. Maybe, if he can unlock the game the way GSH has unlocked BZ2, it could be a way to expand it also. If he opens the engine up to new models we COULD contribute updated versions of the units and buildings.
Just a thought, purists please don't hunt me down and kill me... or burn anything... :evil:
-Av-
Quote from: Avatar on December 16, 2009, 06:03:48 PM
You know... I've been looking at Ken's project as a way to preserve BZ1 for modern hardware. Maybe, if he can unlock the game the way GSH has unlocked BZ2, it could be a way to expand it also. If he opens the engine up to new models we COULD contribute updated versions of the units and buildings.
-Av-
Don't get me excited. We're not there yet. hehe
The lightning towers would explain why the gun towers didn't shoot at all in the intro.
Quote from: bb1 on December 16, 2009, 06:40:02 PM
The lightning towers would explain why the gun towers didn't shoot at all in the intro.
Why is that, you think there's no lightning on the moon?
Quote from: Dx on December 16, 2009, 07:14:29 PM
Why is that, you think there's no lightning on the moon?
I tried to LOL but then my face broke
:lol: Wind Gens would have been a *reeeeal* stretch.
Some bz1-inspired skins for bz2 would be awesome. Too bad we don't have some of our best modelers left.
The white Sabre is way cool - love to see a port of that to bz1.
When they started making the intro movie, it is possible that they hadn't even created the S-Power models yet, that would explain why they used L-Power models. Since they had a release date target to meet, they probably didn't want to wait around until the last minute for the final model concepts to get started on the intro cinematic.
Well, the SPOWER model was in the BZ Trialer, found on youtube
Huh... there goes that explanation. Well, if you can have geysers on the Moon, why not lightning? :-D
You know, another thing that has always bugged me... the cool way the thumper whirls the Czar off the ground in the intro movie. Why couldn't it work that way in the game? It would be so much more useful.
what does all this have to do w/bz modeling? *notes to self all topics I have hijacked
Since I think that it's now pretty well established that interpretations of what a "REAL" Grizzly (or any other BZ1 unit) REALLY looked like, is very subjective....
What sort of, if any, DETAIL should be be put onto the in game models/units? The Grizzly is amazingly flawed, things such as the very front leading edge of the grizzly is tilted, same with the back deck, one of the main thrusters petrudes out farther than the other one... so those flaws have been corrected. Any grill work (IE - top of the "fenders")? scribed/raised panel lines?
What sort of MODEL should be made... an in game model?
I can/will make a few prototype solids... can/will make moulds... can/will do just about whatever... don't know if I should just do as I please, and see if anyone else shares my likes, or is this as I thought of it, more of a BZ community type project...
:? (getting more and more confused) :?
I have a 16" x 6" x 2" of Ren Board (AKA "Plasticwood") available to cut some sort of protype solid(s).
The game's wackiness extents well into all the ship designs. I think everyone understands that. So any subjective decisions will be handled with grace by the community.
What you come up with will be awesome I'm sure. :-)
OK, this would be a proposal of the in game model - prototype/solid. Guess-temating it at about hand size or so.
Av? Think this would suit something to paint up as a proposal?
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/GrizzlyPlasticwoodParts2.jpg)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/GrizzlyPlasticwoodAssembled2.jpg)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/Plasticwood.jpg)
thats the bz1 model cut up into pieces :P
Quote from: General BlackDragon on December 17, 2009, 02:23:15 PM
thats the bz1 model cut up into pieces :P
Thats YOUR Grizz after your arse wander its way into my base.............. :x
lol awsome :-D
just found something out about the "real" grizzly: the grizzly in GBD's sig is the same as the one in the cd installer background AND the background for bz's menus.
*feels deflated because no "real" grizzly model has been made.
(RE: "Textures")
What is the process of transfering ART on to a 3D object, when the object is emersed into a bath, with the ART floating on the surface of the bath? I saw it on several episodes of "How its Made"... but I'll be "dang'd" if I can't find the process on the 'net.
Obviously, I'm wondering if that sort of technique could be used to transfer the in game (or higher res remakes) textures onto a 3D model (vacu-formed, etc.).
If you had several painted and worked models, I'm thinking you probably could get something similarly "1950's" awesome like the pics Gen. Blackdragon posted, with some tilt-shift photography and a heavy dose of HDR.
If I had access to one of those 3D printers, life would be good. I'd have fleets of BZ ships all over my house.
If I could buy one pre-painted because I am lazy like that, I'd pay a higher amount than unpainted ;)
What does it cost to use a 3D printer?
Quote from: Dx on December 17, 2009, 08:12:04 PM
What does it cost to use a 3D printer?
Not sure on use, but to buy one outright is about 15 grand. AKA a decently nice new car. I'd have to look up using one, not sure if such a business exists.
EDIT: http://www.xardas.com/Home.html may do it.
Look it up on ebay. It's awesome.
Quote from: bb1 on December 17, 2009, 08:17:32 PM
Not sure on use, but to buy one outright is about 15 grand.
Hey. . .I'll carve ya the grizz out of a 1" x 1" x 2" solid chunk of silver for $15,000.
PM me. 8-)
3D printers are awesome, and more so Stereolithography... I dream of having one, just because.
The downside is still they are only good for prototyping, one off's, or EXTREMELY low production pieces where it's not required to be the target material.
To get the right detail in a vacu-forming process, I think a mould/cavity with drill vents is the way to go. I've been thinking that a mould for vacu-forming would had needed to have been made frmo aluminum or such... but now I'm thinking for a low procution run, the "Plasticwood" I have would go a long way.
NOW, if "we" could just come up with a reasonable way to transfer the art to it/them.... I've actually seen where artwork was transfered onto the material BEFORE it was formed, obviously controling the distribution of the artwork with that method would be the most critical part, but not IMPOSSIBLE or within acceptable tolerance(s).
Quote from: Blunt Force Trauma on December 17, 2009, 08:42:55 PM
Hey. . .I'll carve ya the grizz out of a 1" x 1" x 2" solid chunk of silver for $15,000.
PM me. 8-)
Note: full payment must be made before any services will be provided
Guys.......
I'm getting some pretty serious splinters of ideas, getting pretty close to going the full-circle on how this may actually be able to happen (based off of the IN GAME model (for now)).
I'm seeing an optional lighting kit, that would include clear thrusters with LED's behind them, etc. ... Which gets me to thinking about the sound modules, of which I know N O T H I N G. Someone just might want to start thinking about what it would actually take to make sound modules.
Taking a quick look around on the net I see quite a few products, but most seem to be too big for this particular application - I found one that actually lets you record to the chip directly from a PC via media player, but it is almost as big as the whole model. There are some smaller ones, but they are single message only, which would be boring, and you would probably need a chip programmer to set up the voice chip.
BTW Wall, your in-game style model looks pretty good - later maybe you might want to tackle the model on the Strategy Guide cover, and the TRO model.
Quote from: TheWall on December 17, 2009, 10:12:41 PM
Which gets me to thinking about the sound modules, of which I know N O T H I N G. Someone just might want to start thinking about what it would actually take to make sound modules.
If you want to go the cheaper route, I can get you some sound modules that make the sound aflac...ALFLAC....ALAAAAAC!!! :lol:
Could someone PLEASE send me the TEXTURE for the Grizzly?? (PM me please, I'll give you an email addy)
I don't have the original textures, unfortunately, so all I have are the palettized textures from the game.
I have a few textures lying around somewhere
IN GAME stuff would be fine... well "OK" :wink: Obviously the Oh-REE-GIN-AL stuff would be ideal, but.... stuff can be made...
Anyone here perhaps near expert at remaking some HI RES textures from the IN GAME textures?
If the texture coordinates are the same, I could put them into the game as replacement large assets... :)
If we take the stock textures, scale them up by a factor of 2, or 4? and go over them in detail, it'd be awsome.
I can try. I have had luck with placing sharpened textures over the ones blurred by scaling. I can look at that and then improving some other thing, maybe even remaking the textures from scratch using shape layers and such.
Moving on with trying to create Vacuum Mould cavities (for better exterior, part detail(s)) of the Hull (for now). Top, Bottom, Right and Left Side Panels (Front/Main), Right and Left Side (Rear @ Main Engines), Rear (Engine Pod)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/GrizzlyVacuumMould-Hull1.jpg)
Turret, Cannons and Engines still to go. All of them have some serious vertial surface issues.
I want mine to have a cream filling.
Better yet, all ballistics gel or that gummy-hand stick to the wall thing. Be funny to throw it at the wall and it stick. Or to just use as a stress relief thing. Squeeze the grizzly over and over! Feel Better.
OO, can you make chocolate tanks?
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
ChocoGrizzly
If you make it from aluminum foil and make a high voltage charge above it on a wire, you can make it hover. :)
Darn Wall, I can't believe I forgot the texture... color me brain dead during this busy holiday season. :oops: I'll bundle those off to you asap along with the Razor.
Now, about vacumn forming... um... I've always worked with CONVEX models.
The styrene goes in the oven, on a frame, to be heated. It's then pulled down around the master model which is sitting on a mesh. This stretches it down over the model, and the only place you need to worry about extra 'vents' are where the master goes concave...
The styrene is fairly hot but cools very quickly, so the master model doesn't really have to be indestructable... but foam is probably out of the question. And of course there's no undercutting, or the master becomes entombed in the styrene. For the Grizz I've always thought it would be just an easy horizontal plane through the widest point of the body, giving you a top and bottom.
The idea of a plate as shown looks to me more like something for a stamping press... or a chocolate mold. :) Grizzly ice cubes, anyone?? Or Ice Pops? Coooool.... :)
-Av-
Av,
Agreed on the Concave.... "but"...
All kinds of issues with the Grizzly.... The Cannon(s) (the undersides) is one of the biggest issues, the countless sharp corners (which also get rounded on a concave pull), the "partline" if you were to halve the Griz is not planar OR it will become captive, The relatively tall, vertical walls near the main thrusters with the 90 degree corner in the middle of them which would make it near impossible to keep from creasing and getting very thin.
The convex/cavity allows for absolute control of the exterior surface(s), "sharp" corners, details that can be put into the mould that transfer to the outer surface. I was involved in the Radio Control Car industry for nearly 18 years, and the R/C Car Bodies (at least the good ones) were pulled into a cavity to be able to control the detail. Things like fine wire cemented into the cavity to create windshield lines, door panel lines, sharper detail for grills, emblems, etc..
Concave/cavity vacu-forming brings its own set of problems, the problem of adequate venting and it not leaving the vent hole impressions.
NOW, all that being said, while I know the process and have seen it done, I've never actually done vacu-forming... so................... :roll:
WOW, interesting mapping...
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/BZ-Album/AVTank00.jpg)
Yup...
It's efficient. :-D
(Pretty much every game model texture I've seen looks like that.)
@ forming:
I can see that for 'professional' projects, but all I've done have been my own simple things so it's all I've known. I still regard this as a very simple model, but as things progress I think it's growing more complex... for instance, if you go with a concave 'mould' you could actually etch the various markings very lightly on the surface to serve as a guide to painting. I think even the fumbliest of us could do a paint by numbers Grizzly texture some amount of justice.
@ texture:
I've always wondered if an artist makes the texture first and a modeller models using it, or they make a model and then an artist paints the texture...
I think what you'd really rather see is something like Lithunwrap output, where it looks like the various faces have been flattened out.
There's also an issue with the star on the 'hood' of the Grizz being cut off... I have a recreation for both ways...
-Av-
Normally models come first from what I can tell. When I use existing textures I inevitably end up rending to texture with a different UV than I started and then doing more changes in PhotoShop.
As far as the actual etching, in the environment I grew up in, that is pertty simple... HOWEVER deciding WHAT to etch/scribe/LIGHTLY engrave is another issue, that is where all the subjective stuff starts coming in. I've also done plenty of that (IE - CocaCola, Ball, etc., etc.) but had pretty good references for what it SHOULD be.
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/Glass/KevinStrimSGI.jpg (1999)
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/Glass/CoorFootballMould.jpg
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af281/kmckenn_bucket/Glass/CoorFootballBeerBottleS.jpg