Post what you think should be changed or tweaked for the 1.2 variant.
ZA already suggested decreasing the buildTime for pods from 5 seconds to 4.
If there are any more suggestions, post them here.
If they don't make it in public beta 4a, I can release the update separately or I can make a new unofficial 1.2 variant for the time being to prevent bad assets.
What I have so far is
* Reduce build time for Service pods from 5 seconds (Default) to 4 seconds
* Make bomber team-transferable
* Reduce the cost of upgraded empties to 30
* Change ai aiming behavior to use 1.3's aiming code since 1.2's is horribly broken
Great stuff. I've posted a similar topic on bz2maps, which will probably get more replies to this since thats where most of the 1.2 players hang out.
ZA, I made the change locally and will upload the change when 4a comes out.
Should I kill the 1.2 aim code used in the 1.2 variant? From what I've heard and seen, the code doesn't work nearly as well as expected. Nowhere close to the behavior of 1.2.
Quote from: Zero Angel on August 04, 2008, 01:10:48 PM
Great stuff. I've posted a similar topic on bz2maps, which will probably get more replies to this since thats where most of the 1.2 players hang out.
And of course, Ego Squished it into that one big thread ...
Quote from: Commando on August 04, 2008, 01:14:12 PM
Should I kill the 1.2 aim code used in the 1.2 variant? From what I've heard and seen, the code doesn't work nearly as well as expected. Nowhere close to the behavior of 1.2.
Are you talking about TLI, GT/Rat aiming, or AI unit aiming?
AI unit aiming ZA. Go against a Scion gun spire and you will see what I mean.
Speed the turrets up, their too easy to snipe.
There's something in the description for the 1.2 variant that says that Bombers are non-transferable. Is this really the case? If so, that should be changed.
Also, is there any way to make Turrets aim better? When they turn around to attack an enemy, their turret wobbles back and forth for the first few seconds making them horribly ineffective when multiple fast ships attack at once.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound picky :)
Ahhh! The spire aiming code. I remember encountering this in one game! I agree with Feared, its probably better just to use the stock 1.3 aiming settings rather than the 'crazy spire' settings you had in PB4.
EDIT: PB4a was just released a few minutes ago. So it will be great to have in PB5. The fixes you already applied to the '1.2' rec is good enough for now. :-)
Quote from: Commando on August 04, 2008, 12:57:37 PM
If they don't make it in public beta 4a, I can release the update separately or I can make a new unofficial 1.2 variant for the time being to prevent bad assets.
That sounds like a good idea if more suggestions come around...
Some 1.2 vets aren't against 1.3, and actually enjoy playing it. It would be nice to get their opinions too.
Would it be possible to give the scouts more lift so they can try to fly or stay in air longer?
I posted a poll (http://www.bz2maps.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2472) on BZ2Maps, asking what upgraded empties should cost. The results are:
5 think it should cost 25 scrap
1 thinks it should cost 30 scrap
2 think it should cost 35 scrap
1 thinks it should cost 40 scrap
As a compromise, I would suggest that upgraded empties be made to cost 30 scrap.
Additionally, the bomber should be Team Transferrable, as thats how it is in 1.2.
Did I not fix the transferable issue in 4a?
Quote from: Commando on August 06, 2008, 04:12:38 PM
Did I not fix the transferable issue in 4a?
Dont know, havent really been able to test the Commando rec in PB4a, but I assume so now.
The 1.2 bomber odf in pb4a.
Quote
[GameObjectClass]
classLabel = "ivbomb"
Mass = 1500 // If <= 0, uses default of Sphere(Width*Height*Breadth) * 800.0
provideCount = 3
provideName2 = "ivbomb12"
provideName3 = "flier"
[CraftClass]
TeamTransferrable = true
[HoverCraftClass]
[BomberClass]
flightAltitude = 75.0 // Was 85 for 1.3
TargetEngageRange = 0 // radius around target it'll route thru. Was 50 in 1.3
Ahh, it uses the stock daywrecker I see. Can you give this a slightly faster daywrecker and/or better armoured daywrecker to compensate for how much it's been slowed down in 1.3? As is, a single minigun scout can kill the bomb easily and this can be a problem, especially when you consider that during late-game when the bomber comes into use, enemy players are almost certainly equipped with more advanced weaponry (like chainguns, laser, and blast)
Also, what is this "Mass" variable, and how does it affect the 1.2 variant bomber?
I used to easily shoot down the bomb in 1.2.
i like the idea of being able to take it out...
saves you getting decimated by bombers repeatedly... so long as you have some good aiming skill...
could you not change the fallspeed of the daywrecker?
Quote from: TheJamsh on August 09, 2008, 04:59:08 PM
could you not change the fallspeed of the daywrecker?
You most certainly can.
[PowerUpClass]
SlowFall = false
FallSpeed = 15
Does the 1.3 bomb do more damage than the 1.2 bomb?
I know I can "feel" the explosion in 1.3 more than in 1.2. It has more kick.
Quote from: Feared_1 on August 09, 2008, 09:16:12 PM
Does the 1.3 bomb do more damage than the 1.2 bomb?
I know I can "feel" the explosion in 1.3 more than in 1.2. It has more kick.
Heh, thats nothing, try the SRV bomb ;)
the issue with the bomb is the acceleration. Ken changed the acceleration during pb4 development.
Quote from: Feared_1 on August 09, 2008, 09:16:12 PM
Does the 1.3 bomb do more damage than the 1.2 bomb?
I know I can "feel" the explosion in 1.3 more than in 1.2. It has more kick.
If you want to feel an explosion go blowup an upgraded power generator called 'Adv. Power', thats in the greenheart recycler variant (pb4a). Just be thankful i didn't make a simple tweak to knock out base power for awhile which was possible.
The bomb doesnt seem to do any more damage. I know for a fact that it cant destroy a forge or overseer, only take them down to <10% health and destroy their lungs.
I just played a game using this variant.
The Gun Towers are really, really easy to wobble, probably because of the 1.2 aiming code? Also, when I fought it, the shots did not alternate. Alternating shots would be harder to wobble.
I just went into the editor and placed stock 1.3 gun towers and found them also very easy to wobble. I move in one direction, they fire a shot, I move in another direction, they fire another shot. I was able to wobble 3 at once without getting hit at all (except for splash damage). Is there any way to make it a little more difficult to do that?
QuoteWould it be possible to give the scouts more lift so they can try to fly or stay in air longer?
Make a custom map, gravity can now be altered, this will of course give everything more lift if you reduce it.
Feared, unfortunately shot alternate is disabled automatically when multiworld is enabled.
Quote from: mrtwosheds on August 11, 2008, 05:07:31 AM
Make a custom map, gravity can now be altered, this will of course give everything more lift if you reduce it.
How do i do that?
Quote from: GENERAL MANSON* on August 11, 2008, 01:18:40 PM
How do i do that?
http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/index.php/topic,8043.0.html
Quote from: Commando on August 11, 2008, 10:16:37 AM
Feared, unfortunately shot alternate is disabled automatically when multiworld is enabled.
A custom Plasma cannon that does half the damage but shoots twice as fast?
The ordnance type on the GT could also be made into a pulse shell type ordnance which emits damage when it passes by light and medium armoured craft.
I'm in the process of creating a huge odf patch for pb4a that will address some of the issues seen in pb4a. Mainly affecting dm ships and 1.2 variants using improper values.
I'm also adding the 4 second service pod to the 1.2 variant for ZA.
A highlight of the changes.
* ServicePod now only takes 4 seconds to build for the 1.2 variant
* 1.2 Aiming removed from all 1.2 units and gun towers
* Some bugs fixed regarding some scion deathmatch variants
* New odfs for modders to use when making AIPs. Requested by Red Devil.
* Corrected the 1.2 Empty Scout bug in the player's starting vehicle list
* Corrected some 1.2 scout variants not using 1.2 physics
Anything else anyone want? I'm still in the process of updating the 1.3 addon objects, but will upload the current version for people to play with.
http://www.bzuniverse.com/~betadudes/unprotected/Pb4a_ODF_Patch_pb1.7z
There is the link. This is just pb1 of the patch I have been working on over the past two days. I still have a lot more files to tweak before I finish up. If you run into any issues, post them here.
Anyone actually try out the fix yet?
My main PC is down at the moment, but when I get it up and running, i'll test your fix out.
I just saw this. I'll give it a whirl when I get back from town.
QuoteThe ordnance type on the GT could also be made into a pulse shell type ordnance which emits damage when it passes by light and medium armoured craft.
Do you like being killed by your own gun towers?
I'm going to try to incorporate these into the Uler AIP's, although I'm already using "bombbay" and "guntower" and airunit". Sure would be nice if the names were shorter though, to save on typing. I can cut and paste, I reckon.
Commando, you might want to restructure this so that it installs into a searched custom root folder that overrides stock assets because, if someone installs this, they won't be able to play stock due to getting duplicate files and bad assets and the only way to fix that is to delete each asset one by one or to reinstall PB4a after renaming addon.
QuoteIf you want to feel an explosion go blowup an upgraded power generator called 'Adv. Power', thats in the greenheart recycler variant (pb4a). Just be thankful i didn't make a simple tweak to knock out base power for awhile which was possible.
how is that possible? i read somewhere that the lockdown weapon had a re-vamp to enable it to lock down power if it hit a building and prevent it from working, which i REALLY like. itd be nice if they could shut down weapons on craft also...
I made the explosion for that.
It does a few things:
1: Knocks out Radar within 200m for 30 seconds - Jammer, simple eh?
2: Slows down/locks up ships within 150m for 20 seconds - If one hits you, your slowed/stuck for 20 seconds.
3: Locks down weapons/buildings within 150m for 10 seconds - Lockdown jams weapons, prevents sbay from working, and keeps you from building from rec/fact/armo, keeps gt's from firing, etc.
4: causes a pretty bang.
Me and GH thought about making it also spawn a negative power building, so that when one goes, your power goes negative for bout 30 seconds?
:-D but i'm not THAT evil ...
Also, for the record, as far as I know, that is the first true EMP explosion in BZ2, and I'm the one who found a way to make it work effectively :)
and how on earth does it spawn stuff on the way out? surely thats .dll control right..
unless you used scrap class... hmmm
:wink:
m he's quick
I would like to suggest that the jammer be balanced down a little bit from stock 1.3 settings. The reason being is that it makes the scions too effective at repelling seiges, which should be the ISDF's primary strong point in late game (the scions typically seige using a mauler charge, or spire+archer walk with titans leading the advance -- whereas the ISDF use assault units to break scion emplacements) -- as is, scions are already pretty effective late-game in a 3v3 or 4v4 situation because of the offensive abilities of their maulers and the defensive abilities of a human piloted warrior.
Also, maulers seem to have been nerfed in stock 1.3 -- in both ai charging speed and their capacity to absorb damage, can they be balanced up a little bit to compensate for this?
As far as I know, maulers haven't been touched regarding speed and armor. At least they weren't intentionally changed. The only change I am aware of is the build requirement change which was undone before or after pb1.
Has anyone even tested these odfs yet?
No, sorry. I still need to find another 1.3 player who is willing to participate in strats. I refuse to participate in a testing strat against a vastly inferior opponent (manyy 1.3 players -- I understand this comes off as arrogant, but most 1.3 players have only a couple months of strat experience (or play like they do) -- or are MPI players, or I cannot get a hold of them to arrange games).
Yeah that is understandable.
Yea thanks for reminding though. I'll put this on my todo list. Now that you bring it up again -- I'm sure i can get a few of my 1.2 buddies to test the modified rec variant for balancing.
i was under the impression that a lot of code on jammer objects was changed to make them more effective.
as for maulers, i know physics had more changes. sometimes they also build IN the ground rather than properly on it which doesnt help.
Yea I noticed that most of these are code changes, hence the ODFs need to be re-adjusted to compensate for the physics changes.
In my opinion the Jammers are *too* effective now, because of the code change. Hence I was suggesting a way to balance them down to the level that they're still useful.
As well the maulers be balanced up because they seem to be far less effective than they used to be.
I have tested stock 1.3pb4 maulers in scion v scion strat lately and they seem to be fine in a scion v scion situation since scions have very poor defense against a mauler charge (save for having a ship equipped for EMP to stop maulers in their tracks). So they fill the same role as the bomber (you have to be constantly on the lookout for it, or it will deliver massive damage). I defeated sheppy's million mauler charge with Jammers (to prevent him from painting my base), a Sonic/EMP warrior (EMP to stop the mauler, sonic to kill it), and a couple of maulers to kill his EMP disabled maulers. So I can say that scions have effective defense against maulers, but not a foolproof way (it requires lots of preparation and will not work so well against 4 human piloted maulers).
Stock PB4a maulers in scion v ISDF strat are MUCH less effective since many veteran ISDF teams can deploy defenses against the mauler charge, including MITS mines, salvo rckt tanks, pummel turrets (to defend against a rec rush) -- as well that ISDF teams are already typically equipped with weapons (chains, MDM) that are strong against maulers. Hence in PB4a, maulers are strong/balanced against scion teams yet weak against ISDF teams (unless the ISDF players have poor battlefield insight (ie: dont watch the minimap, dont paint for their allies, etc) -- which is not a big problem for strong ISDF players)