So picked up Battlezone agian recently, and what a fine game it still is, and still there hasn't been made anything really like it. Quite unbelievable that still no one has taken up the challenge of creating some form of Battlezone 3. The games being eaten away by hackers and cheaters that we practically can't fight, we've got bugs, all the bad support for new hardware, drivers and systems. I can write a list of why we SHOULD do this! What's keeping us?
I'm just eager to find out (what seems as one of the last active of the few BZ cummunities that are left) to see what interest in the idea hides here.
Because isn't it just a shame when you read how much support and enthusiasm there is for the idea out there, there are hundreds of supporters and that's without all those people that loved this game but just don't follow it anymore, (for example: http://www.topix.com/forum/com/atvi/TU5UDAU2PR976PNTP, http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/ ... i?battlezo, http://www.battlezone3.com) and yet nobody has taken up the challenge.
We shouldn't be lead to believe that we can't do this. There are so many examples of great games which came to life like this. Started by gamers, for gamers. Enthusiatst that started of with something like a mod for example. No venture capital, no professionals. Just a lot of love and labour. This is something that I'm sure of we can do! Certainly when I look at all of the talent and creativity that spawned all the mods/enhancements/fixes and expansions for Battlezone 1 and 2, and that's still keeping the game alive. With some good thinking we can even get around the trademark issues with the title and that kind of legal stuff.
And it wouldn't have to be something that stays in development for countless years, venturing into the realms of vapourware. As we've got development all in our hands we could eventually take this where we want. But to keep it real / to something we can realize with a managable amount of work, I was thinking about starting with something like a fresh update, something that would kick Battlezone into the 21st century. It would bring us proper support and compatibility (no more bugs and exploits), much better development possibilities, a much more immersive gameplay with current gen graphics, physics, AI, etc. and all the possibilities that those provide.
Like they say: don't fix something that aint broken, the game still kicks ass today. But I do think that there are good reasons to do make a remake of the game in sense of a grand update, a port to the current state/level of gaming. And I'm confident that there are so many people out there that would love this kind of game.
I'm talking serious Battlezone revival here. I'd love to see this game get the recognition it deserves. I've had some experience with mod projects and working on games before, and we can do this! I tell you1! :)
I'd love to dedicate myself to getting a team together and making it happen.
Issues:
Legal for one :(
Money for two :(
Legal:Spiritual successor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_successor)
Quote from: Wikipedia articleA spiritual successor, sometimes called a spiritual sequel or a companion piece, is a successor to a work of fiction which does not directly build upon the storyline established by a previous work as do most traditional prequels or sequels, but nevertheless features many of the same elements, themes, and styles as its source material.
While this term can apply to almost any media, it has most commonly been used with video games.
Reasons for creating a spiritual successor
Creative teams, due to the current nature of the publisher/developer system inherent in almost all computer games, as well as the continual purchase and takeovers (which sell the entire developer including its copyrights and trademarks) by conglomerate corporations, often fail to retain the copyright and trademark rights of their creations. This often makes attempts to create sequels for a product impossible for various reasons, such as the "core" of the studio being fired or replaced after completing a project while the parent company retains control of the copyrights and trademarks. A good example of this strategy is Electronic Arts, which has closed many studios while keeping their copyrights and trademarks, such as Bullfrog Productions, Origin Systems and Westwood Studios.
To get around this, creative teams will make a product that resembles the original game in some way, without copying or mentioning the original directly, notably omitting the title, story, and character names. For instance, the video games TimeSplitters and, more often, Perfect Dark are often considered to be the spiritual successors the hit video game GoldenEye 007.[1][2][3]
Other times, a spiritual successor is created when the original products were either poor commercial sellers and/or forgotten by the people that would purchase the product. By abandoning the original content's name (and perhaps its baggage as a forgotten product), the spiritual sequel can be appreciated by fresh eyes. An example of this would be BioShock, which has been referred to by its developers as the spiritual successor to System Shock 2.[4] Despite positive critical acclaim, System Shock and System Shock 2 both failed to achieve the expected commercial success.
As much as I'd just love to call this game by the name of Battlezone because nothing would be more right on, we can't because of legal issues if it get's big. But it's the game that matters not the title.
An obviously we can't directly use any of their work, but I don't believe that this would be any obstacle for the project, and even if we can't use any of their work we still wouldn't even have to start from scratch. There are many great platforms out there (like Unreal III or Source) that provide an excellent base for such a game with very good vehicle and FPS API's, and with huge communities supporting it, and that means a lot of people who have experience with it. Volunteers to work on such a project are always very easy to find, especially if we do the PR right. With some reverse engineering and an eye for authenticity I think we can very well bring the game to life, being true to the original Battlezone, with the classic look and feel while bringing in all the progress in gaming of the last years.
Money:I can exactly explain to you how we'd go about to put such a game together with literally no venture capital or professionals :)
Just remember how many games that have became quite succesfull and are right up to par with professional work that all started as mods or enthusiast projects. I've worked on several of such projects before and have seen the results and what's possible.
Have you read this part of my post? :lol: (below)
Quote from: RAVEgun on April 27, 2009, 09:10:10 AM
We shouldn't be lead to believe that we can't do this. There are so many examples of great games which came to life like this. Started by gamers, for gamers. Enthusiatst that started of with something like a mod for example. No venture capital, no professionals. Just a lot of love and labour. This is something that I'm sure of we can do! Certainly when I look at all of the talent and creativity that spawned all the mods/enhancements/fixes and expansions for Battlezone 1 and 2, and that's still keeping the game alive.
Really it would be a waste not to give this a shot.
A good mod for BZ2 1.3 could easily be considered a BZ3
I have no experience with modding Battlezone 2, so could be wrong on this. But wouldn't it be more effective + offer a much much better development perspective if we'd go for a platform that was design for modding? Also platforms like Unreal III or Source would bring in all the progress in gaming of the last few years and they are actively being maintained and developed .They are very well integrated with powerful development tools.
Battlezone II WAS designed to be very modder friendly, and it is.
Unreal III engine is definately NOT free, and ridiculously expensive (try 100's of thousands of dollars to gaming companies).
Changing the engine would change the game and its ease of modding. I havent tried modding other engines, the mere thought of it scares me :P. should i ever become a programmer, ill be sure to bring BZ2 into a good engine :P
I've only ever modded one engine before, which was id Tech 3... its a nightmare.
I didn't read much of the post im afraid, I kinda skipped through it...
As for mods, FE is practically BZ3. It flows beautifully. Unless something can come in between BZ2 and FE, it is, for all intents and purposes, BZ3 to me.
Also, I could not bear to make something without the validity of a sequel or prequel to BZ2. The BZ2 story is so expansive anything is a continuation.
I was rather think of something like a port/grand update of Battlezone, mainly focussing on MP because I think that would be easier to get a collectively agreed goal on then a singleplayer campaign, and thus realized faster/without much conflicts about visions of where it should fit in the story or changing the Bz universie. Just reworking all the assets, making a high-res and detailed terrain palette for map/world building, updating all the effects detail. Bringing it to Dx9, the game would be much more immersible with shaders and lighting of today gaming.
Then we'd have a powerful base/platform, from that you could take it anywhere you want, work on SP, mods, extend it with content.
Games suck without a campaign... there NEEDS to be an insanely good storyline behind it. Thats why i've stuck with BZ2 for so long. I actaully really enjoy the storyline writing part of mods.
You've got to bear in mind that GSH & Ultraken are the only two guys with the scource code that are allowed by law to patch the game. (In fact im not entirely sure even thats true). The other BZ2 programmer still employed by Pandemic (Brad Pickering), according to GSH, is 'smart enough to know his free time belongs to him'. I agree totally :lol:
Personally i think FE & Fleshstorm fight for the 'closest to BZ3' title but QF isn't far off either. FE probably wins it because its so 'complete', Fleshstorm updates so much about the game but it hasn't been completed (hopefully that will not be true for long). QF was a great mod and looks at the whole war from a smaller POV.
Naturally... i hope i pwn all with s'nesis, bu dev is slow work and i have the oddest feeling BZ2's community wont be very big by the time im done. Doesn't mean it won't be worth it though. Damn i wish id found this community FAR earlier.
Quote from: TheJamsh on April 27, 2009, 04:27:58 PM
Fleshstorm updates so much about the game but it hasn't been completed (hopefully that will not be true for long).
I have sworn to complete the second part of the trilogy... and depending on its success (and of course if Lizard will let me), I
may also do the third part.
I think any attempt to make a BZ3 should go back to basics... BZ1 was "Interstate '76" with some bells and whistles, and I think the extreme fun of driving the cars, er, tanks :) had a LOT to do with the insane love some of us have for the game. That means, engine-wise, people should be looking at current games that deliver that same physics rush that BZ1 did that are capable of being expanded to support base building.
Using an existing First Person Shooter or Real Time Strategy engine will probably fall short of capturing the same devotion...
Personally I'm making a HUGE list of how things should work, should the opportunity to move BZ into a new engine arise. I'd love some sort of flight-sim type engine that has the capability of taking on Production Units and Base Building while maintaining awesome ship physics of all types.
Of course, politics and such can ruin even the best intentions and engines. I had high hopes for Breed, but look how that turned out. How cool was being able to start on the Mothership and pilot the Transport to the surface yourself (if you wanted to)? Loved it...
-Av-
I think I missed that, what's Breed?
Quote from: TheJamsh on April 27, 2009, 11:40:47 AM
Battlezone II WAS designed to be very modder friendly, and it is.
Unreal III engine is definately NOT free, and ridiculously expensive (try 100's of thousands of dollars to gaming companies).
Changing the engine would change the game and its ease of modding. I havent tried modding other engines, the mere thought of it scares me :P. should i ever become a programmer, ill be sure to bring BZ2 into a good engine :P
Perhaps we could start a bz3 foundation
TBH, i really like the BZ2 engine. if you work hard enough you can achieve most of whats done today anyway.
Its a shame theres not much support for aircraft and space-bound maps. Even underwater ones for that matter, but it is do-able. Id love to see BZ2 re-made in the unreal III engine. My recent obsession with Gears of War 2 brought that on...
I think with the right support, parts of Bz, Bz2 ported to Ogre and toss in raknet and you'll have a Bz3.
BZ3, in my view, would be best of an all encompassing game like that.
You mean something like this?
(http://private.is/arni/sabre.jpg)
Yeah, Cept the sabre isn't all twitchy texure, i'd go for any update, really.
Just do something like FE.
Make say BZ2 v2.0
Quote from: cheesepuffly on April 28, 2009, 08:31:04 PM
Just do something like FE.
Make say BZ2 v2.0
You mean BZII 1.3TA5?
with modern engines BZ2 could become an absolutely incredible game.
Personally, i think BZ3 would just be an 'engine', rather than encompassing a storyline of some sort. Mods could be known as chapters seeing as we have pretty much invented our own storyline between us all.
So which came first, FE or fleshstorm?
FE both chronologically and in release time.
FE comes almost straight after the original campaign, FS takes place nearly 20 years after it.
Actually, I beleive there are three years until FE. Not certain, though.
I would dearly love to see a BZ2 so much, but I can't see it ever happening tbh :cry:
It already has, but I take it you mean BZ3 :P
Anyone know what year the stock campaign ENDS. I know it starts around 1999.
it does? how'd you find that out?
i guess it depends which one you follow... maybe theres something on you're wiki in the 'leading up to FE' written material
Quote from: Nielk1 on April 28, 2009, 08:46:36 PM
You mean BZII 1.3TA5?
Everything is still mostly the same.
Quote from: AHadley on April 29, 2009, 09:34:37 AM
Actually, I beleive there are three years until FE. Not certain, though.
FE's campaign begins in late 2009.
The year that Core was nearly destroyed was 2005.
Would assuming another 5 years till Hadean incursion if not preemptively attacked be accurate enough to the events not altered by that?
Quote from: Avatar on April 27, 2009, 05:20:46 PM
That means, engine-wise, people should be looking at current games that deliver that same physics rush that BZ1 did that are capable of being expanded to support base building.
Here's your engine!
It's amazing, easily customizable, very powerful, free, and can adapt to any need.
I would even like to add this to the battlezone II engine, if possible... GSH?
Check it out!
OGRE 3D
http://www.ogre3d.org
Only if we had noticed GSH had taken up the DX9 challenge before he got anywhere. It was a surprise to us testers to.
Ogre is a neat engine, to be sure, but there's license issues -- it's LGPL source code, which can't be intermingled with closed source-- and I think it would have taken longer to rewrite DX6 code to speak to Ogre. DX6 and DX9 are closer cousins than DX6 and Ogre.
-- GSH
check out the thing Tempest Storm pointed us too... DX9 allows for some NEAT addons.
Except that is doesn't work.
Quote from: bigbadbogie on April 30, 2009, 04:17:12 PM
Except that is doesn't work.
Set it to start off toggle on a key.
How?
Quote from: AHadley on April 28, 2009, 12:43:33 AM
I think I missed that, what's Breed?
Breed was... well... here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed_(video_game)
It went downhill after the demo (I hear) and never took off.
-Av-
Shame, sounds like it was quite a good game too. I'll have to look out for it.
Breed could have been great but the publisher wanted into the act and modded the developers work which prevented the updated code from ever being released as CDV didn't want to break their modded mission scripts in order to fix the game bugs.
CDV shipped outdated code then blamed the developer, no one ever got the updated code patch from either one of them. Then i heard the lead programmer used the pay from CDV to buy himself a new car instead of paying the workers.
The game engine was said to be used for football game development after that.
The tank, fighter and dropship was fun in the demo, the mothership was pretty cool. I always wanted to have a BSG type battle in space.
Quote from: AHadley on April 29, 2009, 09:47:42 AM
It already has, but I take it you mean BZ3 :P
Yeah :lol:
I haven't really followed all the community additions to the story line/plot. But I sure think it's awesome there's so much creativity and initiative here.
Again I think it would be awesome if we were to create a current gen base on which we can create lots and lots o' Battlzone.
I understand there is some skepticism about creating Battlezone 3, perhaps it's wouldn't be very fruitful to create it with so many great mod already made or in development that could also be considered Battlezone 3.
So I though it might be better to ditch that idea and go for something that might be more interesting for all of us:
The core would mostly consist out of extending the vehicle API to incorporate the unique Battlezone vehicle handling physics. Most popular current platforms already have API's for wheel driven, track driven, and hover vehicles. Modifying it so that the hovering is authentic to that of the Bz tanks would be the core challenge. Second challenge would be to create generic terrain palettes (set of assets such as rocks or terrain features) that would give modders and mappers a powerful way to create very nice, realistic and detailed terrain. Third challenge would then be to program a versatile base building/unit creation API that's easy to modify and extend. However that would be all much further down the development schedule.
This would enable us to create high end content for it. If we develop it so that it's very open, well documented and modifiable, that would give the community much more power and possibilities.
After that I'm sure the community will pretty much take care of the rest :lol: Mods, SP, IA maps, we could take it anywhere we'd want. Reworking the old Battlezone and Battlezone 2, could be.
I've done some more research and I'm ready to approach some other developers to join me. Through my experience with mod building learned it's better to get something out quick and release often, to keep the effort and the support for it alive, and make the development a little more transparent/open. For now I'm thinking of just a 'proof of concept'. 1 vehicle, 1 slap of terrain, 1 weapon. That already implies a quite large amount of work. Think it would be best to just try to manage that first, and listen to feedback. If you'd like to join the effort PM me.
Having looked into all of this (actually always looking into other engines with the idea of moving BZ into one) I think the main issue is always knowledge.
Every existing engine has a learning curve for modders. You don't really know what you'll run into until you master the engine, and who has time to master multiple engines?
Add to that the fact that the learning curve is sometimes there for a reason... it keeps only the most dedicated modders from slapping whatever they want into the engine and ruining the core game.
IF there were a suitable engine available now AND enough tutorials/examples/tools, to make the transition possible (not easy, just possible) THEN you'd see a group form to move to it...
-Av-
Ya i put 1 tank in Far Cry and it was so hard to deal with, it's not worth the work.
The UT2k4 engine was sort of involved but i had coxxon's Uler bomber with head lights working in it. Even a detroyed model for it.
Did you check out the UT3 engine?
I was looking at source with some really cool hover physics.
EDIT: Typo core -> cool
If source wasn't so frikkin hard to do, that would be my best bet.
I'm not very smart when it comes to anything involving the technical foundation of the game. I'm only sixteen, so I'm proud of what I've been able to accomplish in C++, DOS, and other modding things. I could probably learn the basics on modding for BZ2, but I doubt I would have the time or patience to go much further than a few small tweaks to the combat and some extra weapons. There isn't much I'd be able to add to anything done towards a BZ3 other than critiquing things... which really doesn't even need to be done until the real stuff is mostly worked out. Just a few details here and there.
However...
I have loved the Battlezone series ever since I started playing it on the computer when I was five. I love it so much that I even remember my dad teasing me when he was intalling it by saying I couldn't play the game until I could read the game manual fromt to back (and I couldn't even read back then). I would love nothing more than to see Battlezone rise again.
Still...
With the gaming industry in the shambles that it is in now, I would think that the only way a good Battlezone III could come about would be through the community, who lacks the legal ability and capital to do the things they would want to do. This is where the problem lies.
And so...
If only there was a way to get Pandemic to let go of the game... dang, I wonder how many of the employees there have even played it, much less care about owning it. Everyone knows it won't make a comeback unless they release it, but greed has spoiled many businesses, and so I doubt that would ever happen. If there is a way, though... a way to bypass the monetary and legal issues while continuing to ensure the game's quality, I'm game for it.
Frankly...
I wouldn't mind seeing Battlezone 2 simply decked out with some better graphics and given a few tweaks here and there. Things like fixing the water fog that sticks to your screen when you get out, creating better unit paths, adding more gametypes, turning the game menus into something more user-friendly (but still effective), possibly making some extra units/structures/teams, and ballancing the factions a bit more. Oh, and the ability to choose your team's color would be nice too ^^
Just some thoughts.
Why does anyone need BZ3? We've got TA5, so the only thing different would be different units, voiceovers/sound effects, and more SP missions.
Quote from: CivBase on May 17, 2009, 04:06:33 PM
Frankly...
I wouldn't mind seeing Battlezone 2 simply decked out with some better graphics and given a few tweaks here and there. Things like fixing the water fog that sticks to your screen when you get out, creating better unit paths, adding more gametypes, turning the game menus into something more user-friendly (but still effective), possibly making some extra units/structures/teams, and ballancing the factions a bit more. Oh, and the ability to choose your team's color would be nice too ^^
Just some thoughts.
Nearly all of that has already been done in TA5.
And I still reckon a BZ2 Redux mod/pack is a great idea. Add new and far more realistic textures, special effects and models.
yeah civbase, where' u been?
Was the water thing fixed? I haven't tried it yet lol. And the color choosing?
The rest I still think could be spruced up a bit more... I mean, it's great as it is but... idk, I'm just a hungry fan ^^
Try it and let us know.
always play the newest patch :lol:, and yes those were fixed.
Well, I play the newst patch (and pb4 for friends who don't upgrade), but I haven't jumped in water yet.
why would friends not upgrade?
Because they are lazy.
Indeed they are. And when one doesn't upgrade, none can. I have both pb4 and ta5 though, so it's all good.
If anyone's going to make a BZ3, they need to decide which direction they want to take the game: More towards BZ1, or more towards BZ2?
Personally, I thought BZ1 was easily the better - both in MP and SP. The gameplay had more of an edge to it... hard to explain, but really BZ2 doesn't quite feel the same. I'd still be playing BZ1 if the servers were still active...
But the fact is, they won't make a third(fifth) Battlezone game.
And there are still BZ1 servers up, you just have to have the right server.dat file.
Quote from: (AK)Sabre on July 08, 2009, 12:10:24 AM
Personally, I thought BZ1 was easily the better - both in MP and SP. The gameplay had more of an edge to it... hard to explain, but really BZ2 doesn't quite feel the same. I'd still be playing BZ1 if the servers were still active...
I agree 100%.
I would have them remake BZ2 and go an entirely different direction with the story.
Quote from: (AK)Sabre on July 08, 2009, 12:10:24 AM
I'd still be playing BZ1 if the servers were still active...
Here's the latest servers.dat:
http://www.bz911.com/anet2/servers.dat
The way i see it, Battlezone made DM well and as for the Strat i think a combination of both Battlezone and Battlezone II Strat would be the thing to do...
If only we had the programmers willing to remake Bz in Ogre/raknet, the art work is easy enough to do.
One of the complaints i hear a lot from any new people trying the game is the graphics are too old and they won't give the game a chance because it doesn't look new.
TA5 has DX9 :)
TA5?
Ogre has dx9 and 10.
:roll:, it seems that has become the universal answer...
TA5 is the latest of the many BattleZone2 1.3Patch PublicBetas, named TA5, or TechAlpha5, because of it's "upgrade" to DirectX9.
The only reason I don't like things with DX10 is because they are purely for Vista... which is considerbly limiting to who can play it / tolerate it.
Quote from: Dx on July 08, 2009, 07:51:33 PM
TA5?
Ogre has dx9 and 10.
What can be is nothing against what is.
And replacing a graphics engine with a new one is not a simple task.
DX10 is being patched to XP, by the Alky team I think, though that doesn't mean much...
Oh.. that TA5. I was thinking open source game engine. :p
Yes i know about GSH rewriting the execute buffers for dx9. (sounds like a endless job)
Quote from: Dx on July 08, 2009, 07:37:52 AM
If only we had the programmers willing to remake Bz in Ogre/raknet, the art work is easy enough to do.
From my perspective I would say:
If only we had the artists for the non-programming aspect to make a new BZ in whatever, the programming is easy enough to do.
Really, in all the groups I have seen, the programmers go on, but no one uses the new functionality, no new models, no nothing. Programmers need people to use their work to feel validated, else they get bored and move on, as long as someone is always doing something with their work they stick around about forever. I cannot say that about the artists, seems that if anything new catches their fancy they disappear, never to be heard from again....
(http://www.overminddl1.com/image_scripts/image_sig.php?type=ODL1signitures&image/sig.gif)
Generated by OvermindDL1's Signature Auto-Add Script (http://overminddl1.com) via GreaseMonkey (http://greasemonkey.mozdev.org/)
Lizard stuck with Bser..
I stuck with Bz for 9+ years.
I have yet to see a programmer stick with something. (I have to exclude GSH from this statement cause he's a pro)
BSer has stuck with his project. I have stuck with my main project for a very long time now. Heck, in the programming communities I am in, they have been around decades.
(http://www.overminddl1.com/image_scripts/image_sig.php?type=ODL1signitures&image/sig.gif)
Generated by OvermindDL1's Signature Auto-Add Script (http://overminddl1.com) via GreaseMonkey (http://greasemonkey.mozdev.org/)
What is your main project?
I don't know why, but I just flashed on:
Dx: "What are we going to do tonight OM?"
OM: "What we do every night Dx..."
"Take over the world!"
:evil:
-Av-
http://pinkyandthebrain.sparkg.com/wavs/pinky/takeover.wav
So TA5 allows you to choose your team color in MP?
yup
Quote from: Avatar on July 25, 2009, 06:03:26 PM
I don't know why, but I just flashed on:
Dx: "What are we going to do tonight OM?"
OM: "What we do every night Dx..."
"Take over the world!"
:evil:
-Av-
http://pinkyandthebrain.sparkg.com/wavs/pinky/takeover.wav
XD
I loved that show as a kid.
"If Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care, why am I singing a song about it?"
Quote from: Red Devil on May 17, 2009, 04:10:50 PM
Why does anyone need BZ3? We've got TA5, so the only thing different would be different units, voiceovers/sound effects, and more SP missions.
Basically this, I don't really understand why everybody is wanting a 3rd Battlezone because frankly, with all the legal issues involved with the Battlezone name and what not It's not a viable option. Battlezone 1 and 2 hardly sold much at all so looking at a company standpoint they would most likely stay away from it even if all the legal issues were settled 1.3 might as well be our BZ3 because that's as close as It's ever going to get.
We've got a community project going on for god's sakes!
Quote from: Blue_Leader on July 26, 2009, 07:38:53 AM
Battlezone 1 and 2 hardly sold much at all
Battlezone sold enough, (over 1 millon copies i think) to make the "Red Odyssey" Expansion pack, "Battlegrounds" map pack and "Battlezone II Combat Commander".
How many other games of it's time had a million copies sold?
Quote from: Dx on July 26, 2009, 10:20:31 AM
Battlezone sold enough, (over 1 millon copies i think) to make the "Red Odyssey" Expansion pack, "Battlegrounds" map pack and "Battlezone II Combat Commander".
How many other games of it's time had a million copies sold?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_%28video_game%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims
Well, heres just a few examples where have you heard it sold 1 million copies? I could of swore they should a lot less than that but then again I don't find anywhere how much they sold so I don't know. But amount of copies sold aside I don't think the money they made from it covered the cost of production RTS/FPS games never really have sold good in the market hence why there is so few of them but they are one of my favorite type of games so hopefully in the future they become more popular.
Quote from: Dx on July 26, 2009, 10:20:31 AM
Battlezone sold enough, (over 1 millon copies i think) to make the "Red Odyssey" Expansion pack, "Battlegrounds" map pack and "Battlezone II Combat Commander".
How many other games of it's time had a million copies sold?
BZ1's sales were sadly artificially boosted by the way it was packaged will a billion other things. All Battlezone games tend to be things were if you play them you would like them, and then buy Battlezone Gold for the expansion pack and maps while you already have a BZ1 CD marked, like mine, NOT FOR RESALE right on the disk.
BZ2 did not get bundled so it was not so well exposed, and then BZ1 folk game it a bad name without even trying it.
More to the point, BZ1 came out at a time when 3D Hardware accelerated games were rare and new. BZ1 showed off hardware acceleration VERY nicely... so it was a game of choice to be bundled with the new graphics cards.
That's why the inflation of the 'sold' units, as many think it only fair to include the bundled games with the off-the-shelf purchases. I personally don't think so...
I will say that I'll bet anyone who grabbed a new 3D card and installed BZ1 went "WOW!" when they first saw the graphics, after which they went "HUH?" when they tried to figure the game out. It was VERY much ahead of it's time and most of the people I was hanging with at the time were Quake-heads, meaning they weren't really interested in base-building, resource management, and SP missions.
I got a new game and a whole new bunch of friends at the same time... :)
Luv that BZ magic...
-Av-
Quote from: Avatar on July 26, 2009, 06:00:15 PM
It was VERY much ahead of it's time...
-Av-
And apparently still is. :-)
Quote from: Nielk1 on July 26, 2009, 02:34:27 PM
BZ2 did not get bundled so it was not so well exposed
The guy who introduced me to BZ2 bought his copy in a bundle with Dark Reign 2 and Heavy Gear 2.
Speaking of Heavy Gear, I still have the disc(s) for Heavy Gear 1. Haven't played it in at least 5 years if not more. Might give it a shot today. :-D
It seems to me that Battlezone 2 evolved into 3 with the introduction of Forgotten Enemies. The addition of 1.3 saw the introduction of fixing 1.2 bugs and some general improvements overall. However, some where along the way things have become kind of obscure. TA5, as it's called now stand for what? PB, I understood, but TA? In all of the revisions why hasn't a decent aircraft or water class AI been implemented? I know from past posts that some peeps have requested them.
I read some posts that BZ2 missed the mark when compared to the original BZ, but for most of us it stands well enough on it's own merits to earn the loyalty of it's fans. Still, I wonder if the developers of new improvements to BZ2 are listening to users about what direction the improvements should include? I know it's not my place to demand anything, but I would like to see air and water class units supported in some way to help round out the game play a bit. Battlezone, is a strategy based combat game and in the real world this includes a wide array of combat scenarios and not just land based battles, i.e., the ISDF bomber from the original 1.2 version, etc. For what we all know now we may have already reached the level where the game could very well have reached the level of Battlezone 5? BNG.
GSH made comments and pointed to a pretty diagram in his TA5 Released post that explains about why its called a Tech Alpha pack. Its because of the nature of the changes made, like re-writing to DX9.
The battlezone II Demo CAPTIVATED me when i played it. Then i tried to find the game for months and never could. The units, the enemies i hadn't seen all displayed in those teaser splash screens? I LOVED it. Then i bought it, downloaded the 1.2 patch from pandemic's website, then happened to stroll accross the BZ2MD forum.
It was only when i found BZ2MD about 2-3 years ago that i started modding. THATS what drew me even further into it. Ill probably never stop playing it even if i get bored sick of it.
TBH, i would NOT be interested in a BZ3, and i wouldn't be surprised if most of the persons reactions on this board were the same. BZ2 is good enough, and we practically have a BZ3 already. BZ3 would have to be written in a new engine to REALLY count as BZ3.
If it was made, and written in Unreal Engine 3.5, then you can quite easily retract my previous statement, but BZ3 will NEVER happen, and i don't really want it to. End of story.
Agreed in intirety.
Do we have somebody who would be capable of updating the BZ2 demo to a BZ2 IA bonus mission...?
Quote from: Blue_Leader on July 26, 2009, 11:32:32 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_%28video_game%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims
Well, heres just a few examples where have you heard it sold 1 million copies?
I'll accept StarCraft for the same time period as BattleZone but HL is 8 months newer ( that's a long time to advance the tech the games used) and The Sims is much newer then that.
You may not like to count the bundle versions Av. but it's all sales and i'm sure it helped pay for the 2 million dollars that made Bz2.
One thing I forgot to mention is that BZ1 had BOTH hardware accelerated AND software rendered modes. This let you SEE the difference it made, as most of the other games that delved into hardware acceleration just did it, dropping software mode. Nothing beats seeing the difference in the same game...
Quote from: Dx on July 27, 2009, 12:52:17 PM
You may not like to count the bundle versions Av. but it's all sales and i'm sure it helped pay for the 2 million dollars that made Bz2.
It's not that I don't want to count them, it's just that those people bought a video card, not BZ1. They didn't decide to try the game, they just ended up with it. I would like to have had the game succeed on it's own.
I'll still count them, it's just that it would have been nice if it'd been because it's such a great game, not just extras for hardware. :)
Quote from: TheJamsh on July 27, 2009, 11:34:14 AM
The battlezone II Demo CAPTIVATED me when i played it. Then i tried to find the game for months and never could. The units, the enemies i hadn't seen all displayed in those teaser splash screens? I LOVED it.
I agree, the BZ2 demo had a VERY different feel to it than BZ1. It seemed much more alive, cruising through that swamp to rescue the downed dropship survivors. It felt almost claustrophobic compared with the wide-open (and dead) spaces on the Moon or Mars. I loved it too...
I also appreciate the leaps the Dev team made, moving from an essentially DM based game to Team Strat. The fights that caused... wow... {HEL} vs all... :) Only a very loved game can cause such a ruckus amongst fans... :evil:
BZ1 was new, innovative, and pushed the technology and gameplay into places it had never gone before.
BZ2 was/is a worthy successor to it, and while no sequel ever has the impact that the first of something has I think BZ2 succeeds on it's own despite the technical issues that plagued it. TA5 is a miracle, and shows what BZ2 could have become...
I like to think of it like Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. Star Wars succeeded amazingly, energizing fans and opening the doors to a new universe. Crude, sometimes painfully so, and stumbling here and there it did things for/to us that no other movie had ever done.
Empire was technically more sophisticated, and took things further and into unexpected places than most sequels do. It also bravely ended things at a point that was definitely not the end, not a victory for the good guys, and it wasn't a certainty that we'd get to see the end of the story. Still, it was amazing on it's own.
Event though one is a sequel of the other I think they stand well alone as two very different, yet amazing, movies.
I think the same of BZ1/BZ2...
-Av-
When i pick a video card, i try to buy one with games to show me what the card can do, also helps to prove the card is good while under warrenty. But back in those days the games probably was worth more than the video card. hehe
Quote from: AHadley on July 27, 2009, 03:31:18 AM
The guy who introduced me to BZ2 bought his copy in a bundle with Dark Reign 2 and Heavy Gear 2.
WOAH. SO DID I.
Except I didn't buy my copy, it was a gift.
But still.
Anybody thought about trying to make other interested in bz2? If we are lucky maybe we can get more talented modders to help with the patches. And ultimately bz3, but still theres the issue of money for the bz3 project...
I don't know any modders :lol:
Quote from: Scav-Avenger on September 08, 2009, 10:16:42 PM
If we are lucky maybe we can get more talented modders
I think you insult some people on this forum by suggesting that their skills aren't enough :P
I think his emphasis was on "more", not "talented". You would need MORE people to undertake such a project, and good ones too. The ppl already modding are, IMHO, already producing work of commercial quality - or better, lol. Making a whole new bz3 would require, for starters, a dedicated team of C++ coders willing to devote much of their spare time to building the core game.
Never say never guys :).
And why not? FE is already considered a BZ3 of sorts.
Now that Pandemic has been closed, who's up for convincing EA to make a BZ3?
They did say that they wished to continue Pandemic's legacy...
And it was their first game after all. Only problem is that, being EA, they're going to make some piece of trash that looks good but doesn't have a storyline.
Madden has a great storyline.
Quote from: AHadley on November 18, 2009, 02:06:43 PM
Only problem is that, being EA, they're going to make some piece of trash that looks good but doesn't have a storyline.
That is where mods come in...
Quote
Now that Pandemic has been closed, who's up for convincing EA to make a BZ3?
They did say that they wished to continue Pandemic's legacy...
Battlezone is still associated w/ Activision. EA didn't buy Pandemic until Jan 2008.
Problem is, neither publisher wants to make games that don't sell well enough to make back the development costs. BZ isn't dead. Just unprofitable. Wildly unprofitable.
-- GSH
...And they would never take the risk of losing any money so they stick with the 'popular' genres.
Those genres are only popular because they are so blatantly overused.
This is a deadlock which it seems can only be broken by either a well respected game company throwing monetary safety to the wind and making another FPS/RTS game which is advertised properly and subsequently sells well, or a fan-made indie game or total conversion mod (in a newer engine) which showcases the possibilities that FPS/RTS games have.
The latter is the most likely option of course... and BS-er's M.A.D is well on the way.
Even if M.A.D is a total success, it may still not be enough to start convincing the general gaming population that FPS/RTS hybrid games are any good. A fan-made mod in an engine such as Unreal Engine would probably draw the largest crowd.
Quote from: sabrebattletank on November 18, 2009, 02:33:54 PM
Madden has a great storyline.
The Madden games are just an NFL game. Same thing as every year, same ol' thing every time. Just some updates in graphics or gameplay on occasions. You can't compare something like BZ2 to an NFL sports game.
BBB is right, the Battlezone series wasn't as popular as it could be. Big name companies won't do anything that won't sell well and all that. Plus, EA's latest games aren't all that great IMO. I've yet to see a game from them that actually had good physics for anything. (something I won't get into too deeply here)
Far as a BZ3 is concerned, FE, IMO, fits that bill the best. Its the most expansive single player campaign extension compared to any other stuff I've seen. The next best one would probably be Fleshstorm.
It could always be possible to create something new with the Unreal Engine perhaps.. but that would need a lot of time and patience to start work on something like that. Not only that, a really good team, dedicated to the project to keep it going and not become a dead project.
Idk if you've noticed but there's a cp being worked on. It might well top FE.
I doubt it Calvin. It could be cool, but FE sets the bar pretty high.
Gotta be optimistic.
im confident BZC will top the bar FE set :P
It wouldn't be a very good BZ3 though. More BZ1.5 :P
Quote from: bigbadbogieThis is a deadlock which it seems can only be broken by either a well respected game company throwing monetary safety to the wind and making another FPS/RTS game which is advertised properly and subsequently sells well, or a fan-made indie game or total conversion mod (in a newer engine) which showcases the possibilities that FPS/RTS games have.
Valve? :-P