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Not yet, but I'm trying to get my paws on one for awhile to test it out. I've got the exact same videocard in the other system and can't swap with the laptop of course.

If I can't get ahold of any older cards to borrow and test with, may as well buy a new one... is ATI generally better with regards to not breaking older games? Thanks!

What are your settings in render.cfg set to?

All of these have been left alone at the defaults across all (re)installations so far. Any recommendations for changes to try?

I just got out of pb1 and found the same issue, so I think it's safe to assume I'll have it across all 1.3 versions. I wish I could confirm that it's in 1.1 or 1.2 as well, but since I can't seem to get it working without the 1.3 patch, I'm kind of stuck there (I had never played this off a plain CD install before honestly, I got it over half a year ago, Googled for patches while I was waiting on the delivery, and found the 1.3 patch - bug and performance fixes are always welcome, downloaded it and installed it before I ever played it. So, I had no idea it didn't work right off the CD on this system. Good thing I found 1.3 or I probably would have sent it back - woulda missed out on a classic).

Try a fresh CD install, no 1.2 patch.  Hence this is usually version 1.1 of BZII.  Perhaps install this to a different folder other than the default.

I installed to a different directory and I don't get the red/tan screen now. I can see the video, but the same thing happens - when it ends or I press escape, BZ2 locks up. AFAIK everything is English/US from game version, OS and reg/lang settings and the DirectX Diagnostic Tool doesn't tell me anything is wrong.

I am going to download pb1 now and see if I get the issue there. Not sure why 1.1 or 1.2 lock up immediately even if I skip all the cinematics with /nointro. Tried /nodxt too. At least for now I can find out if this issue is present in earlier versions of 1.3 lacking access to stock versions. I'll get back with results on that soon.

As for options settings, again, so far the only graphic setting that's had any impact on this issue, as described earlier, was Object Detail. If I set it to Med or Low, ISDF Recyclers and Power Plants don't whack the framerate as long as they're far enough away that they don't switch to high detail. Obviously though this doesn't help any with Scion Lungs or drop-off markers. I suspect the culprit on the power plant is the glowing blue texture inside the structure, which looks similar in make-up to markers and lungs, but that doesn't explain the Recycler, unless it has some kind of hidden animated transparent texture stuck inside it somewhere you never see?

Anyway, be back with more info soon.

Alright, erm... just one problem. How do I get Battlezone II to work without the 1.3 patch? I did a full uninstall and deleted leftover files. When I start the game I get a red/tan screen. I can hear the intro videos etc. but nothing happens. If I press escape it silences as if it's skipped the movie but it stays there locked up with no visual change. I tried Windows 95 compatability mode and used the /nointro command and got a stalled black screen instead. I think the version that comes off this CD (may be true for all cds?) is not 1.2, so I downloaded the 1.2 patch and put that on and got the same result. I uninstalled, reinstalled, rebooted, tried over and got the same problems a second time.

Any ideas? If I can't get stock versions running I'll just try pb1 and see if I get the same issue there and move along down the line as suggested.

And before anyone says it - yeah, I've got bad luck, I know. This is exactly why I don't gamble!

Something to possibly try.

[snip prefs.ini changelist]

I tried this earlier, in fact that was the last thing I tried before registering here. Again, didn't notice any improvement. About when is a man justified in pulling out his hair? I feel close!

To go to windowed mode in MP, put "/win" on the commandline, or hit alt-enter when you're on the login screen. The best tests are done w/o AI running, as that can be doing some work.

Here you go, game.memstats in multiplayer ST with no AI.

(about 3 minutes elapsed, Recycler deployed)
Framerate: 29.91fps
Mem: Objs 78 0 0 expl 0 0 0
Wpn 7 0 0 Partcl 0 1 0
ord 0 0 0 GAS 5 DL 78
saveBuf 0 0 0

If he gets added to the beta team, I can send him some links to prior full builds to see when his issue started after pb3.

Unfortunately, I don't think the issue started after pb3. I was using pb3 before I did a full reinstall and patched to pb4 a week ago when I found out it had come out. I had these inexplicable performance issues well before pb4, I distinctly remember mumbling a few colorful metaphors while watching all the textures and objects and sky etc. flick on and off constantly while playing with a friend numerous times. Heheh "This game looks great for such an old title!... hey what happened? Now it's ugly!"

I wanted to test the plain game off the CD without using the 1.3 patch, but I'm clueless as to what console command toggles the FPS display, which is off by default in the stock game.



Also, I just finished three more tests with BZ2 1.3 on my desktop and laptop. First I tried my laptop with an NVIDIA Quadro something 256mb, forceware version 101.19... and it ran fine. Even the blue ISDF construction effect I noted a small framerate hit on earlier didn't make a scratch. I immediately suspected the NVIDIA drivers (small surprise that would be!) and upgraded my laptop to 174.31 to see if the problem had occured in recent drivers. However my second test with the laptop and the updated forceware turned the same results... no problems. So I came back to my desktop, upgraded the firmware here from 169.21 to 175.19 and tested again. Same problem. Something about these specific objects bleeds my framerate. If the ISDF Recycler wasn't one of the culprits, it'd make sense. Lungs, ISDF power plants and drop-off markers all use a fancy little animated transparencies. So too I imagine does the ISDF building effect. As best I can tell though, the ISDF Recycler has no such graphical effects, so I'm at a loss to make a connection.

This makes no sense to me. If it were a performance issue the 30 vehicles with headlights blazing onscreen and moving around should have made my system explode, given that three idle buildings crush my framerate. I wish I could point out exactly what the problem seems to be. At least now I know I can simply play it on my laptop instead.

If anyone has any other suggestions or knows the console command to toggle the framerate display so I can test a fresh install without 1.3, I'll try it. Otherwise I'm out of ideas. It definitely looks like a unique issue with certain hardware now, but I still think there must be some issue with the game that's lighting the match - otherwise I don't see why these specific things in BZ2 cause problems while the rest of the game, and many other games I play ranging from 1995 to 2006, seem perfectly fine. Recent stuff like Doom 3, Oblivion, Prey, Titan Quest, Company of Heroes etc. all runs nice on high settings. Anyway, thanks again.

[START:]

Alright I used the memstats command. I sat in the game about 8 minutes with the Recycler deployed, facing it and the drop-off marker. Note that I had to use Instant action mode this time (with an AI player) since Multiplayer wouldn't let me change the screen resolution or go windowed so I could take screenshots to compare these statistics.

START: (about 5 seconds elapsed, Recycler not deployed)
Framerate: 124fps
Mem: Objs 84 0 0 expl 0 0 0
Wpn 19 0 0 Partcl 0 1 0
ord 0 0 0 GAS 3 DL 84
saveBuf 0 0 0

RECYCLER DEPLOYED: (about 60 seconds elapsed, Recycler settled in)
Framerate: 38.50fps
Mem: Objs 88 0 0 expl 0 0 0
Wpn 19 0 0 Partcl 0 1 0
ord 0 0 0 GAS 6 DL 89
saveBuf 0 0 0

LATER: (about 8 minutes elapsed, still just parked there)
Framerate: 11.21fps
Mem: Objs 83 0 0 expl 0 0 0
Wpn 19 0 0 Partcl 0 1 0
ord 0 0 0 GAS 6 DL 83
saveBuf 0 0 0



I didn't even know there was a chat room here, so that definitely wasn't me. You know what... it just occured to me I can install this on my work laptop and test it again there. Kind of spaced off it's existance. I'll let you know if it appears to have the same issue.

Looks like I noted I had it on none (and an FPS hit on high as you described) in the text before the list but forgot to actually list it. I thought I had listed every setting in the options panel. Oh the humanity...  Edited that in there. So much for being thorough!

Has anyone else tried to reproduce this by leaving BZ2 running for a bit facing a deployed ISDF Recycler with the drop-off marker onscreen? My framerate starts decaying within about a minute. I haven't seen any behavior regarding this problem that leads me to believe it might not exist for everyone... I think it's more likely something about my hardware and/or drivers accelerates the issue. I'm going to go see about grabbing NVIDIA's latest drivers again, though that hasn't helped before, and get back with more information when I've had a chance to test this on an entirely different system. I'll keep tabs on this for more suggestions though.

Enter in the console game.memstats.

That will tell you how much memory is being used up ingame.

This is definately something that should be brought up to GSH's attention, but since only a few people are having the issue, finding the cause will be difficult.

I'll go try this now and report the results. Also, this seeming like some kind of problem with the game itself is exactly why I'm trying to narrow down what seems to be causing it and how it behaves - every little bit of information might be invaluable.

You can turn off Vsync with MM5. Just go to Bz2 Configuration, 1.3 Configuration, and you should see it. Remember to click 'apply'.

With Vsync on, it will always dip.  I have it on and it does the same thing. Reason being is that the percentage hit is more noticeable since it's limited to your monitor's refresh rate.

Poke around in your video adapter for an option to turn off vsync and set it to false in your localPrefs.

For the aperture thing, hold Del down when booting and go into the peripherals area (i think) and poke around until you see the place where you adjust aperture.

I made sure VSYNC was off in the videocard and localprefs etc. and saw the framerate gliding at 120-124fps. Still the objects listed above in the main post eventually cripple my framerate. The longer the game runs, the worse it gets. Unfortunately it seems to get bad FAST. Within the first five minutes my Recycler is deployed I lose about 50% of the framerate. It continues deteriorating, though the rate of decay lessens as the framerate drops. It doesn't take long to go from 120 to 40, but from 40 to 8 takes much longer.

Red Devil, I could not find any settings anywhere for the videocard in my BIOS. I didn't see anything with the word "aperture" in it for sure. I couldn't find any mention of it in the NVIDIA control panels either.

What video card do you have?  If you have an Nvidia card, turn Sky detail to None.  With my comp, my performance is crappy when it is set to either low or high and will eventually cause the game to pretty much die.

Yep I read a post about this elsewhere here (from you I think), and I have had Sky detail set to None for some time. I posted this information (including all current BZ2 option settings) and my system specs in the main post above. It's a 512MB videocard (NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX; current forceware version 169.21). I also read before signing up here about the /nodxt thing and had tried that previously as well. I did try it again now as mentioned before and it seemed to make no difference. Basically for me what you describe as the game performance eventually "dying" is exactly what happens to me with these objects on the screen. It's not an immediate slaughter of performance, but a slow death over a short period of time. Maybe there's a relation?



I just got out of a game that I'd been running for about 35 minutes (with no AI players). I got down to 5.88fps with nothing but a Factory, Recycler and one Power Plant onscreen along with both their drop-off markers. Yet, I took the time to build 20 Missile Scouts, 10 Sabres, and a Constructor, put them all in one area and build a scrap pool and 4 Relay bunkers... with *all* of that onscreen at one time my FPS didn't drop below 71. Heck I even sabotaged it further by turning Headlights -> All. Imagine 30 vehicles and 4 buildings with light effects all clustered in one spot. Brought the framerate down to 18fps. There is absolutely no way three buildings can be more demanding than that. Something ain't right. I face an empty direction and it skips back up to 120+... is there a proper channel I need to use to report this as a bug? I've done my absolute best to ensure this isn't a performance issue, I'm headed there next if I can't get it resolved or if I can get this issue reproduced on a different computer that doesn't have the same hardware in it.

Okay everyone... I haven't bailed out yet. I've been playing with this more and I think I've got better details now. I updated the area of my first post containing the list of "problem objects" on the screen and relevant details with more detail and hopefully described the issue I am having better - please peruse it. I've reproduced it on another machine (with similar hardware) and in spite of all the suggestions here so far that I've attempted, nothing has resolved it. I sincerely believe there is some kind of bug here that I can't think of any name for other than a "memory leak", though that might not be what it is - something similar maybe - I really, REALLY would love it if someone would diligently attempt to reproduce this and I will report it as a bug. I am trying to get my hands on a system with different hardware to test it out on too just to be sure, but it could take awhile, so if any of you could help me I would be grateful.

Might want to check the video aperture size in your CMOS too.

Sorry, I'm a bit unfamiliar with fetching information from the BIOS... what exact bit of information am I looking to retrieve and where would I likely find it in there? Or is it one of those wonderful non-standardized bits that's different from one BIOS to another? (Doh)

Try adding /nodxt to your bz2 shortcut.

I did this. Unless having this in the target field isn't typed correctly -

"C:\Program Files\Battlezone II\bzone.exe" /nodxt

- I tried it and I didn't notice any change or benefit.



Thanks again for your time and patience! I'll continue trying out suggestions made here, if I get the game flowing wonderfully at a 60fps I'll be happy but I'll still think there is some underlying cause for this that needs to be addressed.

Does the ISDF relay bunker hurt your FPS??

I think I see why you asked... I just realized there seems several transparent textures here on the Relay Bunker too, so there goes that idea... unless it's something to do with animated and/or partial transparency. I just circled the Relay Bunker in satellite mode and in a scout with none of the aforementioned troublemakers onscreen, and there wasn't even a tickle off of the 60fps. Relay Bunker seems perfectly fine.

It sounds like you have vsync turned on in your video adapter and in the game.

BZ2 uses the CPU to render instead of the GPU, so any time there's dense graphics on the screen, it shows.  Try turning on PIII optimization.

Have any processes running in the background?

I agree - a virus scanner or something like that is a likely culprit.

I don't see an option for VSYNC anywhere in the game (I see it in the ini file but it's set to off, and I don't recall changing it so I think that's default). And for BZ2's purposes, is performance better with VSYNC on or off (both in-game and for the videocard)? I'll gladly change/check them to whatever is suggested.

PIII Optimization seems to make no improvement regarding the FPS drop with these things on screen. I did notice playing around with this that the special effect on ISDF power plants seems to cause a hit too (about 22-33 FPS loss).

I have a couple things running in the background but nothing consuming. An idle messenger, notepad, and a virus scanner (and no it's not running any scans - resident shields don't hurt right? I can disable it to be sure). I understand Battlezone II is an oddball as far as CPU/videocard usage, but these specific FPS hits seem like they're caused by some kind of bug related to the things listed above (and possibly others I haven't found). Glitched models? Bugged special effects code? Whatever the actual cause is, it is beyond me, but this certainly seems more than just a general issue. Why would very specific objects in the game cause performance hits onscreen when many others that, for all purposes, appear just as complex or decorated, and in much greater numbers, do not?

Editing the GamePrefs.ini file can cause bad assets so I'd suggest copying the settings from GamePrefs.ini to either LocalPrefs.ini, LocalPrefs_bzone.ini, or LocalPrefs_bz2edit.ini to avoid bad assets while playing online.

those files can be found in your 'battlezone II\addon\config\*.ini' folder

also the lights setting maybe another reason why you got fps hit, try turning that off if your having problems with your FPS.  Light Sources: One  -> None

I guess I should have noticed the "Do not edit this file" line at the top. Wasn't there before, just opened it up and twirled down looking for new options to try tweaking. Since the changes made there didn't seem to improve performance any, I've set all the variables back to their original values for now.

I tested again with Light Sources set to none. No difference noticed in FPS hits with the things mentioned above on screen.



Thanks for the suggestions so far but no dice yet. From what I can tell if I could just make ISDF Recyclers and power plants stay in the mid-detail state, and make Lungs and drop-off markers invisible, this game would absolutely fly barring the ISDF construction effect. The Scion construction effect doesn't even make a dent in my FPS. EDIT: And I wanted to add, that's with Reflection ON, which I read somewhere makes the effect even more demanding.

EDIT #2: Is there a way to disable transparency effects? It just occured to me that that's one thing Lungs and ISDF Power Plants have in common. Not to mention the drop-off markers and the ISDF construction effect. Doesn't explain the ISDF Recycler though...

[UPDATED: July 19th]

Hello! First off, I just wanted to greet everyone here and express my appreciation for this patch, team and project. A lot of fun games get abandoned simply because they're "old" and this kind of community effort is invaluable. I've been playing BZII with the 1.3 patches for awhile now, since the last version (pb3) and really like it. But with Battlezone II I've always had some severe performance hits, almost so much as to cripple the game and make it unplayable, and I've tried playing with every graphics setting in-game and in the configuration files I could think of, with no luck. I finally gave it up and crossed my fingers that the next patch from here would improve performance.

With this patch's release, I did a completely fresh install of BZII and slapped it on. I was at first saddened that I did not see any improvement, but I decided, rather than sulking and leaving the game until the next patch, that I was going to do my best to determine what seemed to be causing these performance hits I was experiencing. I assumed I wouldn't get anywhere, but if I could help contribute to this project it was worth the time and experimentation. It paid off. I realize these issues my be specific to my system, however after reading other posts around here noting performance drops around bases, I believe it is not some unique issue. I'll post my system specs after this; but know in advance this is a fairly high-end system. I'll also include current graphics settings for BZ2.

After playing a bit, different maps, switching races, building a base, units, flying around and scratching my head at the wildly varying performance, I finally started noticing a pattern. Barring combat (which I did not test but I'm sure throws some kind of framerate hit, obviously) I've found specific things that ALWAYS hit my framerate, even though at all other times it's a flat full 60fps and smooth as silk (even with about 6 units and 6 buildings on the screen). I think there is some major issue or bug here but I lack the technical expertise to analyze it; so I'll leave that to you guys. Here's what I found after some thorough testing:



List of "problem objects" that cause a performance hit and details UPDATED: July 19th

Previously it seemed that my game suffered a large (set) FPS hit with specific objects on the screen, but I after playing around with it more, it actually seems the FPS hit for these objects... bear with me, this is kind of difficult to explain. Essentially the FPS hit my game suffers isn't within a set amount - i.e., a Recycler doesn't hit 40, a Power Lung 25, whatever. I thought it was a specific amount for specific things, however, playing around with it more, I've found that the number is *wildly* variable, but there is a pattern. The longer any of these "problem" objects have existed in the game, the higher the framerate hit. I can deploy an ISDF Recycler, park my Scout looking at it, and watch my framerate literally bleed itself to death, dropping from 60 to a mere 8 FPS after about 6 minutes. It's like there is some kind of memory leak. For the most part this effect does NOT stack (thank goodness!) - for example, both Power Plants and Recyclers cause this, but if I have both of them on the screen simultaneously, the FPS crush doesn't increase. Of note however is that the drop-off markers DO stack with this. Like the buildings, over time the drop off markers seem to hurt FPS more, but if I have both a problem building and a drop-off marker on screen at the same time, then my FPS takes an even heavier hit. Multiple drop-off markers seem to function similarly though; I can put two or three in one place and the FPS hit is the same.

I sincerely believe that these objects are BUGGED. Something about how the game handles or renders them is causing a consistent, accumulative performance degredation. If I look away from the objects framerate instantly leaps back up to 60fps, but the moment I turn back to face them, even if I fly far away first, fps tanks back down to the level it was at when I was looking (or lower, if it's been awhile). Of peculiar interest is that, regarding the ISDF Recycler and Power Plants, this issue ONLY occurs on High Object Detail, or on lower settings when you get close enough to the structures to see the high detail models - if they are not displayed in high detail, framerate again leaps to 60fps. I have had this problem for some time over different NVIDIA forceware versions and it's persisted from pb3 into pb4. I can reproduce this issue on another computer here with similar hardware and drivers and am working on trying to get ahold of a system to attempt to reproduce it on with different hardware and drivers. No I don't have processes running, nothing bogging down my system, I've reproduced this dozens of times now both with an AI player on the map and completely alone so nothing should be causing a performance degredation while I sit there and do nothing, and I've tried playing around with all kinds of graphics options inside the game and outside of it and with the videocard itself as per suggestions so far and nothing has resolved the issue.

I would assume if this issue was widespread it would have been detailed by now, but I honestly can't believe that this is some kind of one-in-a-million problem. I recall reading somewhere else on here that a fellow found he had a bunch of units and buildings on screen at one point and FPS was fine, then in another his framerate took a hit simply with a Scion Matriarch and two turrets (or scavengers) on the screen - I bet it was the drop-off marker causing the hit, and he'd been in the game awhile. I suspect other posts I've seen describing performance issues in and around the bases are due to this as well.


Here's the list of offenders that crush my performance gradually when on-screen:

ISDF Recycler - Only when fully deployed, and only in High Object Detail.
ISDF Power Plant - Only in High Object Detail.
"Drop off" marker - At all times regardless of any graphics options I've tried so far.
Scion Lung - At all times regardless of any graphics options I've tried so far.

There may be more I haven't found yet.


System Specs:
Windows XP Professional SP2 with DirectX 9.0c
2 hyper-threaded 2.00GHz Intel processors (effectively 4 CPUs)
2GB of physical RAM, 2GB+ of virtual memory available
512MB videocard (NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX; current forceware version 169.21)


Current Battlezone II Graphics settings:
Note that I can set resolution to 1024x768 16 and switch everything on HIGH and ON and *still* get a flat smooth 60 FPS with none of the things above on the screen. The only exception is the SKY setting. With it off I get the perfect 60, but with it on High it dips down as low as 40 sometimes but still stays close to 55. Right now all GamePrefs.ini files are default. I'm not running any mods for BZ2.

Note: VSYNC is on, and I'm running the game fullscreen.

In-game:
Resolution: 800x600 16
Sky: None
Light Sources: None
Terrain: High
Local Fog: Off
Weather: On
Reflections: On
Texture Size: Large
Props: Low
Shadow Detail: Low
PIII Optimization: On
Mipmaps: Auto
Anisotropic Filtering: 2
EMBM Bumpmapping: Off
Particle Detail: Low
Object Detail: High

===================================

This is a real killer and if there's a fix I can't find it anywhere obvious, which should be corrected, and if not, I'm hoping this information will help the team identify the problem(s) and fix them in the next patch. Thanks again for all your hard work BZU team! Questions welcome from anyone; I tried to provide all the information I anticipated anyone asking for, but I'm sure I may have missed something.