Balance/ Physics Patch

[Red Devil]

 It is, but you learn so much in the process, even you you lose a few fingers in the process.   

[Ultraken]

I definitely got tangled up in a lot of the physics debates during the early development of the 1.3 patch.  I busted the hover physics pretty badly before getting it back to something better than it started, and that cost me a lot of goodwill from the community and wasted several weeks of my time.  The current version seems to be holding up well, and Nathan's been exporting a lot of formerly-constant values and fixing things left, right, and center.  The last 1/3 of the changelog is all Nathan, all the time.

[Red Devil]

He sure has done a lot of great work, that's for sure.    You too.

The thing I've learned about BZ2 is that players are really passionate about it and tend to let their feelings get in the way, ala, "That man touched my BAAABY!"

They just need to realize that things are done in an attempt at improving things and that it's more of an art than a science and that it takes a lot of sketches to get a finished painting.

[appel]

The "vets" are pissed off about physics changes, and now they demand *more*? Doesn't seem consistent to me.

-- GSH

I'm sorry, but I have to correct this.

From start, even when 1.3pb1 was in the works, we have commented about the physics, and we've always said the same consistent thing: Ships are too sluggish and hard to handle, make them more like they are in 1.2.

[BZZERKER]

appel, I'm curious, have you tried 1.3PB2 yet?

...and any idea where PF is?

[appel]

appel, I curious, have yiou tried 1.3PB2 yet?

...and any idea where PF is?

Yes, I've tested it.

I must say I like the graphics, the game looks great (when using full graphics). Most AI has been improved, but there is still that problem with the turrets; they sometimes don't have a clue what to shoot at, and they are easily killed by circling around them. For MPI and single player I'd say the game is great.

But as I play multiplayer only I can't see I'm as impressed.
- I never use full graphics in multiplayer, for higher framerate, and the graphics look really blurry, or weird.
- Ship handling is still too sluggish, and trying to maneuver is a total annoyance.
- Terrain bumping I don't like.
- When trying to move forward fast in a scout you end up on your nose, and you bump on the ground like you're a box made of steel coating.
- Dogfighting in multiplayer is bizzarre... you don't know where the ship is, even though you have the 'T'-arget lock on him... he just smoothly moves around...and hitting the enemy player directly with any weapon does no damage. Chasing someone down is impossible because of this. Don't get me wrong, warping is bad in 1.2, but at least in 1.2 I can get the true position of the ship by using 'T' button...and most of us can predict where the player will warp to.


There also seems to be a problem with the AI units, when I tell it to attack a target up a hill, they sometimes get stuck on the hill. (here i told those units to attack that rat up there)

[BZZERKER]

Just what I was expecting. Very thorough, concise report.

Pay attention ppl, what appel just posted is one of the best ways to report bugs and problems. If you come in here with an attitude (much like Opp did with pb1) you only make things hard on yourself.

Some of those things cropped up in release candidates version of the beta but somehow slipped through.

[Red Devil]

Yes, very well said, appel.

The confusion when attacking turrets is probably due to the radar damping they have been given so they can ambush better.  Try telling the units to go to a spot instead and they will be ambushed and will defend themselves.

[APCs r evil]

Uh, Red, appel is talking about being able to kill turrets too easily by circle strafing them. Unfortunately because of the improved AI, making them spin around faster makes them like ZST turrets, I gather. Although they can't aim up.

[BZ FeebleEffort]

Appels observations are just the sort of comments you would  have recieved all along if he/they/we had been given a fair opportunity to be heard and those opinions COULD have helped greatly.

But, that ship has sailed  at this point.  I encourage everyone to approach it the way Appel did...But whether GSH has the inclination or energy to fix things is up to him.

Ken understandably seems to have closed his end of things up (deservedly so) But maybe the modders or community members can fix things..that I'd love to see, but I don't know if you can all get at the necessary values to do that.

[Red Devil]

I can get them pretty close.  It's the fine tuning where more input is needed.  DM/Stratters use the physics more than I do, so we would need precise input like, "Needs 10% more reverse." or "Needs 5% more strafe."

Using set distances is a good thing to use too.  For example, to guage lift, I would hit the "e" key and see how high it went compared to the height of a light pole, then I would see how it rose over the top of a cliff after a run up it. Stuff like that.

There's 129 vehicle entries, so it's no small matter.

[Spawn]

Asking for easy numbers like that won't work, there is no scale for "feel" of ships.  If they knew that they wanted 10% more straff, then they could do it themselves.

[appel]

I've been testing the scout for a while now, and I'm thinking that it maneuvers ok. But there is one thing that I just can't get over, that's bumping on the ground, hills etc. Even if we managed to make a new physics for 1.3 ships so they handle EXACTLY like in 1.2, it wouldn't be the same because of that bumping on the ground.

When we're maneuvering and playing, we are doing it fast, we need speed, high velocity turning, going up hills and stuff. This ground-bumping really hinders all that, it reduces our speed and dulls our maneuvers.

I'm actually thinking that there are only 2 things that keep me away from playing 1.3:
1. This ground-bumping.
2. Multiplayer smooth-warping of units.

[Red Devil]

Ground bumping is pretty easy to adjust.  Problem with adjusting things though is that adjusting one setting usually affects oterh settings.  That's where the tediousness of adjusting things comes into play.

[appel]

Ground bumping is pretty easy to adjust.  Problem with adjusting things though is that adjusting one setting usually affects oterh settings.  That's where the tediousness of adjusting things comes into play.

So, does that mean ground-bumping can be changed in 1.3pb2? How?