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Modlog for modders

Started by Commando, March 01, 2006, 07:35:18 PM

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Ultraken

Quote from: OvermindDL1 on March 04, 2006, 11:25:36 PM
How does it compare to the FS2 source? :)

Or even worse, the Serious Engine 1 mod source... *shudder*

Since I haven't looked at either of those, I can't make that comparison.

So far, here's the games that I've worked on:
Battlezone 1 (based on I76)
Battlezone 2 (remove I76, add DR2)
Star Wars: Clone Wars (remove DR2, add I76-like "Ground Zero" engine)
Star Wars Battlefront 1 (entirely new)
Star Wars Battlefront 2 (extension of SWBF1)

CW has the architecture that I like the best, and I've contemplated "porting" BZ2 to it, as I already halfway did that for the CW prototype.

Red Devil

If it was ported, would it look and feel the same?
What box???

Red Devil

I played the Empires At War demo from Petroglyph, thinking it would be like BF2, but said, "This is DR2!"  I may wander, but I always come back to BZ.
What box???

Juvat

Yeah I always go try new games hoping for something similar to BZ, I'm always disapointed and always come back to BZ2. Lucky I can make new Races so it seems like a differnet game

Ultraken

Quote from: Red Devil on March 05, 2006, 02:52:00 PM
If it was ported, would it look and feel the same?

I'd say yes, as CW was effectively a port of the BZ2 code base to a new engine, and then modified extensively. 

Red Devil

 That'd be cool and it's very interesting.  I looked for a demo of CW, but then found it was for console.  Seems like BZ is the root of a number of games.  :-)
What box???

OvermindDL1

Yea, gamecube, played it at a friends pretty extensively, always played Conquest, I always won.  In the strat guide they got, I saw a picture of all the devs in the back, being a few people here. :)

If I had the BZ2 source I'd certainly be doing things to it, probobly refactoring it first, I always seem to do that when I get a set of code...

Ultraken

The main problem with BZ2 is that it has become fairly brittle.  Changing anything tends to lead to unexpected (and usually bad) consequences.  There are whole systems in BZ2 that need replacing (AI, physics/collision, rendering), but too much depends on them to change them much.  Nathan also makes the legitimate point that open-sourcing BZ2 would lead to a free-for-all of incompatible versions, breaking the already-small community into tiny splinters.  You know there would be a split between the "we hate the 1.3 changes" crowd and everyone else, and there would likely be more.  That's why I respect Nathan's decision to avoid releasing source, even if I don't agree with it 100%.

Ultraken

Bear in mind that 1.3 was never meant to take anywhere near this long or affect so much--rather like the Gilligan's Island "three hour tour".  It all started with me fixing a problem with the game crashing when people typed a particular character sequence in chat, along with a few other niggling problems.  We started fixing more and more problems, then I started making large-scale changes, and the whole process ran out of control in truly spectacular fashion.  It's been going on for over five years now.  There aren't too many game patches that take this long...

Juvat

QuoteNathan also makes the legitimate point that open-sourcing BZ2 would lead to a free-for-all of incompatible versions, breaking the already-small community into tiny splinters.

Yes I agree with that, but also I think at some point in the future say a couple of years down the track, releaseing as open source should happen!!.  Its kinda an exceptional game, that has so much potential for add ons it just should be done in a few years

Another thing to consider is that it may splinter the community, but it may have the opposite effect and grow the community, if someone puts out crap no one is gonna use it, but if someone makes a gem then it can only grow the community :lol:

Cheers

Ultraken

That was my position, but I figured it's better in this case to be overly-strict than overly-permissive.

OvermindDL1

Quote from: Ultraken on March 06, 2006, 12:14:07 AMNathan also makes the legitimate point that open-sourcing BZ2 would lead to a free-for-all of incompatible versions, breaking the already-small community into tiny splinters.

Yea, shouldn't be open-source; although, there are a few specific parts I'd give up a tooth for, at least a few dozen specific functions. :)

Red Devil

Yes, maybe not open source, but limited access to, say, a competent, ravenous, fellow like OM.  Probably be like throwing gasoline on a fire though.  :-D  That way, it would take the load off GSH and you guys would get a willing and able new apprentice.
What box???

Avatar

Quote from: Ultraken on March 06, 2006, 12:27:46 AM
It's been going on for over five years now.  There aren't too many game patches that take this long...

I rather thought it became Nathan's pet...  the way he started supporting those of us asking for extensions to things in the name of our mods made me think he was stretching himself a bit, experimenting more with what we were doing than any shortcoming of the engine that needed patching.

All I can say is that participating in this patch has really honed my mad skillz in many aspects of game modding, and for that I'm truly grateful.  It's once again shown just how amazing this community is...

-Av-

Red Devil

I really beg to differ with that.

His first priority has always been in squashing bugs.  Adding options exposed more bugs/AV's/bad code that would not have been found, so the two processes complemented each other..
What box???