TrackedVehicleClass Physics Problems

[Avatar]

I've run into exactly the same thing Hoohah discusses.  While the new values give you some control over things like the grade of slope the vehicle can climb, and the amount of roll during higher speed turns, there's still nothing that will 'stick' a tread to the ground.  The darn things loft at the smallest hill, float down steep slopes, and turn into balloons when jostled or bumped at the right time.

It seems that treaded units are doomed to remain a very narrow vehicle class, with extreme limitations.  I've found keeping them square, not HUGELY oversized, slow, and on flat terrain seems to be the best for them.

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[General_Hoohah]

Thank you.

This is a very noticeable bug in the game and it plays a major role in how the game plays, decreasing the enjoyability of the game and the efficiency in which it plays, and severely limits what you can do with the game. All those factors make this a very practical problem that deserves attention. A tracked vehicle that stays firmly planted on the ground is not an irrational thing to ask for, so I don't understand why its so easily dismissed.

Specifically speaking, what have you guys been working on recently, and what do you guys plan to work on after the next release? What's more important than this issue and why doesn't it deserve any attention?

[Spawn]

It would be more the fact that GSH just wants this out of his life, the issue doesn't affect the stock units (besides service trucks, but they are drunk) so it isn't seen as a major problem.

[Angstromicus]

Dosen't affect stock units?

I've done a short test on the isdf assault tank. EDIT: (and a scavenger, same results)

It doesn't slow down very much, even when I'm pressing reverse, there's no change in how fast it slows down. It can barely steer while moving, which is a problem when I can't slow down. When I drove it off a cliff in hi-lo, I thought I was in one of those "falling dreams" "rocking in a cradle", gliding down like a feather to the bottom. I bet if I farted in the tank it would fly upwards (or whichever way the tank was,! BLASTOFF!

I guess it's understandable to try to not be on your head in a treaded unit, so it tries to "self right" itself. Causes the "rock a bye baby in the cradle" effect when falling.

Slow falling also causes problems when climbing steep terrain, since if you hit a bump, you lose control for longer than you should, because you're bouncing all over the place trying to land, you lose momentum, and start rolling back down the hill. It's not just very difficult to stop forward motion, it's just very difficult to reach a speed of 0.

[General_Hoohah]

I don't like using treaded units because of this, and when I do, I suffer for it because it takes a lot of time to micro manage them. I can have the choice of treaded units making chaos in my base or not have their strength when I really need them, which is a really hootty choice to have to make. This really is a large problem in the game. Its nothing to take lightly.

I actually saw an assault tank trying to get up the first ramp at the beginning of a bridge, and this enemy saber rammed right into it, sending it flying about 500 meters! No joke, it actually landed on top of a cliff behind my base and it took me a while to get it down. When a medium hover tank sends a 40 ton tank, flying 500 meters through the air.... you know something is very, very wrong. Did I mention it couldn't even get up onto the bridge? It had been trying for about five minutes. It was funny to watch. First it took a running shot at the bridge and bounced off, then managed to get on the ramp but couldn't drive all the way up, so it tried rocking back and forth in a zig zag pattern, but to no avail.

[Avatar]

Remember Golems in BZ1 when exposed to the Thumper?  Biometal is strange stuff...   

Treaded units aren't meant to be the focus of the game, and as such I can understand their limitations.  I also ask for changes and features, and when told NO I accept it and move on.  There's plenty of other fish in the BZ2 sea...

IOW if Nathan could do something I'm sure he would... harping on it won't change that.   I also think this is more of a "Kencodeâ,,¢" thing, but he's gone missing again...

Like I said, keep them decent sized, slow, and squarish and use them on flat ground... 

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[General_Hoohah]

Well, I know Nathan can't do it, I'm just really disapointed that Ken disapeared.... what happened to him? In the last change log, he said he was going to continue working on the tracked physics. I was really looking forward to his work! If he finishes it, it would make BZ2 so much more fun to play, and there would be so much more we could do with it.

So no, Im not talking to Nathan, everyone knows thats not his area. But I also get the feeling that some people don't care if the treaded physics aren't fixed, and thats insane! I don't think they realize how much that would impact the game, and what we could do with it! Imagine all the cool new stuff we could come up with, and how much more fun the game would be!

[Avatar]

Actually...

Some very exciting things have just happened in the private concerning tracked vehicle physics.  I can't say just what and it's still being tweaked but Nathan has done some very cool things to unlock the physics.

As I've been saying, Nathan is doing all he can, and has a great methodology concerning physics.  By that I mean rather than try to change it himself into something everyone will like (impossible) he's moving many of the constants to variables we can set in the ODF.

Awesome. 

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[Angstromicus]

The less that's hard-coded, and the more that's in the odf, the better! (Just imagine everything being hard-coded, eugh!).

[General_Hoohah]

LOL, that actually sounds like something I'd do.... if I knew anything about programming.

[OvermindDL1]

It's actually harder to do then you'd think, without a good setup.  In my app, all little object definitions are little python scripts like this:

Code Select Expand

class SimpleCube(PhysicsObject):
    Name = "Simple Cube"
    Mesh = "SimpleCube"
    Description = "The basic cube"
    Collision = CollProx.Cube((-1,-1,-1),(1,1,1))
    Mass = 8
    # etc...
PhysicsObject.registerClass(SimpleCube)
And they can even inherit from each other too.

The system is setup so that it loads all the python code at program start, compiles it, stores the compiled code, and executes it to add it to the listings. (Also do the same with level definitions and so forth, also python scripts, was interesting to hook python to store and serialize the compiled code).  When networked, it sends the current level compiled code and all of the modules the player does not already have or the hash does not match, and they execute it.  Etc...  Complex system (took about two hours to write in all honesty, python is so rediculously simple, even on the C binding side ), and very powerful, just what I was needing.

[GSH]

Note: there are new options. Not new defaults. And don't expect everything to be 100% the way you want it with a "DoWhatIMean = true" flag in the ODF.

-- GSH

[General_Hoohah]

What I meant by that was that I can solve problems with alternative methods, using existing resources. Thats what he did, and thats why I said it sounds like something I'd do. I didn't realize he was the "thinking out of the box" type. Good job! *gives GSH a thumbs up* Can't wait to see what you've done!

[Avatar]

I'm just a little sick of people saying in any way/shape/form that Nathan doesn't care...  he's given us months worth of hours of caring, or there wouldn't be a 1.3...  He's very cautious to say even with the changes treaded units are not made of gold, don't do your homework for you, won't mow your lawn...  IOW like every other unit they'll have their good and their bad.

For modders working on their own treaded units I recommend using boxCollide, keeping them square in shape, and keeping them fairly slow.  If you want to push the enevelope there are a lot of other physics tweaks you can do, but YOU will have to do the work to find what works for you.  You can't just toss a mesh into the game and expect it to dance for you unless you're willing to put the time into balancing/tweaking it.

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[General_Hoohah]

Where did that come from?