Is it possible to cheat in multiplayer?

[Zero Angel]

It is an exploit because the DEVELOPERS, the people who MAKE THE RULES deemed it an exploit. It wouldn't make sense for NBA Players to suddenly say double dribble is legal when the NBA says no. If the NBA Players don't like the rules, they are free to go off and make their own organization with their own rules.

Logical fallacy.

The NBA players make money for the NBA, who then pays them -- the NBA player is an employee of the NBA management, enforced by the ability of the manager to fire bad players and recruit ones who are willing to play by the rules.

Battlezone 2 players play for themselves and for each other -- they do not owe the developers any thing. They already paid the developers what they owed when they bought the game.

Anything which the developers add afterwards is completely up to them. If they are doing it out of altruism and the goodness of their hearts, and the players like it then they deserve thanks at the least and whatever good feelings they get from helping their 'baby' to survive (because I imagine if they did stick around to help, its because they are proud at least to some extent).

If the developers want to remove flying, fine, but its not a course of action that I would recommend because it will mean less players playing the creation which they invested so much blood, sweat and tears into.

If they want to keep using the exploit, they can stick with 1.2 and all those bugs that come with it.

Sounds good to me, not ideal, but acceptable. -- Ideally, 1.2 vets will move to 1.3 anyways because its improvements (removal of alt-tab, AV and ghosting bugs) outweigh its drawbacks. I'm just saying that flying, air-maneuvering, fast-run enabled, and responsive ships are important to many of the die-hard 1.2 players -- enough that that their loss could *possibly* be a deal breaker. We cannot know for certain what the final outcome would be, but the worst case scenario involves the BZ2 community dying a slow death as 1.2 vets gradually leave alltogether and the amount of games in 1.3 stays the same (virtually nil). The best case scenario is everyone moving to 1.3 and being able to determine the parameters of the game they host.

[Red Devil]

Well, the hovering definitely isn't coming back, but it's easy as heck to make a a Scout that comes and goes like the wind.  The one I use to test in FE can jump/fly half way across Mega Mountain (3500 meter map) while doing acrobatics in the air .

I've even posted them here about a year or two ago.   

[Nielk1]

You could always put forward firing jetpacks in. Or upward firing ones.

That will induce flying... Reverse thrust jet pack special.

[Avatar]

The whole skill/exploit issue is another one faced by developers, as no beta team regardless of how good they are can find all of the holes, or exploits, or loopholes that WILL be discovered by thousands of bored kids pecking away at the final game.

Again, I'll use Tribes as an example but this time it's the OOB issue.  Tribes terrain repeats over and over, flipped and mirrored, endlessly stretching off to the horizon.  This puts the play area inside an infinte world.

Going Out Of Bounds returned the flag to it's team, but without the flag it just gave you a warning buzz, so some players added it to their arsenal of tricks.  Sniping from OOB, sneaking up on bases that way, setting up mini-camps to resupply attack waves, etc.. 

SO, some players felt that the warning buzz meant the Devs didn't want you going OOB, and added a slow death pulse to being OOB on their servers.  The argument about that went on forever...

In Tribes 2 the Devs added a giant grid that appeared when you approached the OOB area, AND the flag still went back to the pedestal.  A little more nudging but still didn't finish off the issue.

See?  There are always going to be controversial issues that the Dev's don't want to get heavy handed about.  As long as the resolution of an issue, or enforcement of controversial points, is in the hands of the players most Dev teams are willing to leave them be.  It takes a very strong issue, or something that was considered a failure at release, to get most Devs to step in and change something along these lines.

-Av-

[Angstromicus]

I must comment that the removal of the ability to fly does seem a bit tacky. I've made a series of super units that use weapons that would AV 1.2. When I first started using these units in 1.2, they were highly maneuverable in the air. In 1.3, their engines pretty much shut off when trying to fly in the air, which, to me, is weird behavior.

[bigbadbogie]

just allow flying in SP but not MP!!!!!!!

[Sonic]

Logical fallacy.

The NBA players make money for the NBA, who then pays them -- the NBA player is an employee of the NBA management, enforced by the ability of the manager to fire bad players and recruit ones who are willing to play by the rules.

Wrong. It doesn't matter if the NBA pays the players or not, the whole point is the NBA games have rules, just like Battlezone 2. The developers make the rules, not the community, and like any software based games, the rules have to be updated to include exploits that players have found over the years that go against the concept of the game. Inf Flying goes against the concept of the game, it has been marked as an exploit, it is not a skill. DEAL WITH IT.

[anomaly]

Wow.  You guys are still arguing about this... and yet you know its not going to change.  I'm not going to say whether I'm against hovering or not but, really, what's the point of all this arguing about what should have been done? 

And for all you people who miss hovering in 1.3, if any of those ideas suggested above work, why not make a mini-mod incorporating it and maybe elements from ZST.  If it works well enough at replicating hovering, you might even convince some of those 1.2 zst vet players to come over to 1.3.

[Avatar]

That's pretty much been the idea for a long time, to make a 'Vets Recycler' that duplicates 1.2 physics as much as possible.  In fact, some of the 1.3 fixes for 1.2 bugs are reversible by design, to help this effort.

Thing is it's going to take effort on both sides, the modders and the Vets, to get it the way it should be.  It's not enough to just put some of the numbers back in place, things have changed to where it'll take some tweaking to get things right.

-Av-

[bigbadbogie]

fan-bloody-tastic

probably because of this stupid argument CmptrWz is scrapping half the
boards on the forum including the bz1 section!!!!!!!!!!

he said it was the attitude of all of us here that he is getting sick of!!!!!

[CmptrWz]

This thread? Nope. Not a problem.

The arguments that stem from some of the topics touched on in this thread, that have been around for years now?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps it is because most of the "community" appears to have wanted the game THEY found fun, period, no exceptions, "why was anything else even put IN the code!?" to the point where I, personally, no longer found playing fun.

Think about it.

[Sonic]

I've known this was comming for a while now. Count yourself lucky though, I thought it was going to be alot worse than this.

[Feared_1]

People should start playing online more. All games will get old after a while. Everyone grows out of playing them. I see maybe 30 people on BZ2 at one time (maybe around 150-200 ACTIVE players throughout the ENTIRE game). On this site I see some of those players and more who don't even play.

Of course you're going to have issues with snotty players with a bad sport. The easy solution is to leave and find another game. That's what I've done for years.

You can't call a game "not fun" if you don't even play it.

As for the site clean-up:
I'm glad this site and BZScrap is staying. Maybe some guys can come up with a BZ1 site to replace the BZUniverse forum. I DO count myself lucky.

[Avatar]

There are more people playing Tribes2 on a single server each night than in all of the BZ2 games.  I think of this when I want to regain my perspective...

It's to the point where I just think it's funny.  Think about this:

Basically anyone currently playing 'Vet' 1.2 BZ2 has totally blown off working on 1.3.  Yes, they complain about it when it comes up and they all have various reasons but in the end the 'Players' have blown off the patch.

Anyone currently worknig on 1.3 is generally considered a 'modder', not a 'real' player.  Sorry if I insulted anyone right now, this is all IMHO and not how I personally view anyone here.  I bow to many when it comes to MP knowledge, I am but an egg...

So basically you have the die-hard 1.2 players who are pretty much trapped with 1.2 until either Gamespy drops support, someone targets them with a massive attack using known vulnerabilities, or they get tired/old and wander off.

The only hope for a future the game has is 1.3.  1.2 is not growing, certainly not in any way that anyone can see, and since 1.3 allows pretty much any type of gameplay you're willing to put the work into making, it's the only thing that'll be capable of supporting whatever anyone wants to play it as... 

OK, that's a bit of a circular argument, "they'll play it because it'll be what they play" but it's still valid.  1.3 can adapt, 1.2 can't.

So take all the controversy with a grain of salt and keep on doing whatever part of this game you do because you love it.  Ignore the doomsayers and depressing, closed minded, scared, defensive, old-school attitudes and just be yourself.

Works in most of life's situations, btw...

-Av, waxing philisophical before coffee-

[General BlackDragon]

besides, in pb4 flying is possible, at host's discression.