Battlezone 3 - what are we waiting for?

[RAVEgun]

So picked up Battlezone agian recently, and what a fine game it still is, and still there hasn't been made anything really like it. Quite unbelievable that still no one has taken up the challenge of creating some form of Battlezone 3. The games being eaten away by hackers and cheaters that we practically can't fight, we've got bugs, all the bad support for new hardware, drivers and systems. I can write a list of why we SHOULD do this! What's keeping us?

I'm just eager to find out (what seems as one of the last active of the few BZ cummunities that are left) to see what interest in the idea hides here.

Because isn't it just a shame when you read how much support and enthusiasm there is for the idea out there, there are hundreds of supporters and that's without all those people that loved this game but just don't follow it anymore, (for example: http://www.topix.com/forum/com/atvi/TU5UDAU2PR976PNTP, http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/ ... i?battlezo, http://www.battlezone3.com) and yet nobody has taken up the challenge.

We shouldn't be lead to believe that we can't do this. There are so many examples of great games which came to life like this. Started by gamers, for gamers. Enthusiatst that started of with something like a mod for example. No venture capital, no professionals. Just a lot of love and labour. This is something that I'm sure of we can do! Certainly when I look at all of the talent and creativity that spawned all the mods/enhancements/fixes and expansions for Battlezone 1 and 2, and that's still keeping the game alive. With some good thinking we can even get around the trademark issues with the title and that kind of legal stuff.

And it wouldn't have to be something that stays in development for countless years, venturing into the realms of vapourware. As we've got development all in our hands we could eventually take this where we want. But to keep it real / to something we can realize with a managable amount of work, I was thinking about starting with something like a fresh update, something that would kick Battlezone into the 21st century. It would bring us proper support and compatibility (no more bugs and exploits), much better development possibilities, a much more immersive gameplay with current gen graphics, physics, AI, etc. and all the possibilities that those provide.

Like they say: don't fix something that aint broken, the game still kicks ass today. But I do think that there are good reasons to do make a remake of the game in sense of a grand update, a port to the current state/level of gaming. And I'm confident that there are so many people out there that would love this kind of game.

I'm talking serious Battlezone revival here. I'd love to see this game get the recognition it deserves. I've had some experience with mod projects and working on games before, and we can do this! I tell you1!

I'd love to dedicate myself to getting a team together and making it happen.

[Nielk1]

Issues:
Legal for one

[AHadley]

Money for two

[RAVEgun]

Legal:

Spiritual successor

A spiritual successor, sometimes called a spiritual sequel or a companion piece, is a successor to a work of fiction which does not directly build upon the storyline established by a previous work as do most traditional prequels or sequels, but nevertheless features many of the same elements, themes, and styles as its source material.

While this term can apply to almost any media, it has most commonly been used with video games.

Reasons for creating a spiritual successor

Creative teams, due to the current nature of the publisher/developer system inherent in almost all computer games, as well as the continual purchase and takeovers (which sell the entire developer including its copyrights and trademarks) by conglomerate corporations, often fail to retain the copyright and trademark rights of their creations. This often makes attempts to create sequels for a product impossible for various reasons, such as the "core" of the studio being fired or replaced after completing a project while the parent company retains control of the copyrights and trademarks. A good example of this strategy is Electronic Arts, which has closed many studios while keeping their copyrights and trademarks, such as Bullfrog Productions, Origin Systems and Westwood Studios.

To get around this, creative teams will make a product that resembles the original game in some way, without copying or mentioning the original directly, notably omitting the title, story, and character names. For instance, the video games TimeSplitters and, more often, Perfect Dark are often considered to be the spiritual successors the hit video game GoldenEye 007.[1][2][3]

Other times, a spiritual successor is created when the original products were either poor commercial sellers and/or forgotten by the people that would purchase the product. By abandoning the original content's name (and perhaps its baggage as a forgotten product), the spiritual sequel can be appreciated by fresh eyes. An example of this would be BioShock, which has been referred to by its developers as the spiritual successor to System Shock 2.[4] Despite positive critical acclaim, System Shock and System Shock 2 both failed to achieve the expected commercial success.

As much as I'd just love to call this game by the name of Battlezone because nothing would be more right on, we can't because of legal issues if it get's big. But it's the game that matters not the title.

An obviously we can't directly use any of their work, but I don't believe that this would be any obstacle for the project, and even if we can't use any of their work we still wouldn't even have to start from scratch. There are many great platforms out there (like Unreal III or Source) that provide an excellent base for such a game with very good vehicle and FPS API's, and with huge communities supporting it, and that means a lot of people who have experience with it. Volunteers to work on such a project are always very easy to find, especially if we do the PR right. With some reverse engineering and an eye for authenticity I think we can very well bring the game to life, being true to the original Battlezone, with the classic look and feel while bringing in all the progress in gaming of the last years.

Money:

I can exactly explain to you how we'd go about to put such a game together with literally no venture capital or professionals
Just remember how many games that have became quite succesfull and are right up to par with professional work that all started as mods or enthusiast projects. I've worked on several of such projects before and have seen the results and what's possible.

Have you read this part of my post?  (below)

We shouldn't be lead to believe that we can't do this. There are so many examples of great games which came to life like this. Started by gamers, for gamers. Enthusiatst that started of with something like a mod for example. No venture capital, no professionals. Just a lot of love and labour. This is something that I'm sure of we can do! Certainly when I look at all of the talent and creativity that spawned all the mods/enhancements/fixes and expansions for Battlezone 1 and 2, and that's still keeping the game alive.

Really it would be a waste not to give this a shot.

[General BlackDragon]

A good mod for BZ2 1.3 could easily be considered a BZ3

[RAVEgun]

I have no experience with modding Battlezone 2, so could be wrong on this. But wouldn't it be more effective + offer a much much better development perspective if we'd go for a platform that was design for modding? Also platforms like Unreal III or Source would bring in all the progress in gaming of the last few years and they are actively being maintained and developed .They are very well integrated with powerful development tools.

[TheJamsh]

Battlezone II WAS designed to be very modder friendly, and it is.

Unreal III engine is definately NOT free, and ridiculously expensive (try 100's of thousands of dollars to gaming companies).

Changing the engine would change the game and its ease of modding. I havent tried modding other engines, the mere thought of it scares me . should i ever become a programmer, ill be sure to bring BZ2 into a good engine

[AHadley]

I've only ever modded one engine before, which was id Tech 3... its a nightmare.

I didn't read much of the post im afraid, I kinda skipped through it...

As for mods, FE is practically BZ3. It flows beautifully. Unless something can come in between BZ2 and FE, it is, for all intents and purposes, BZ3 to me.

[Nielk1]

Also, I could not bear to make something without the validity of a sequel or prequel to BZ2. The BZ2 story is so expansive anything is a continuation.

[RAVEgun]

I was rather think of something like a port/grand update of Battlezone, mainly focussing on MP because I think that would be easier to get a collectively agreed goal on then a singleplayer campaign, and thus realized faster/without much conflicts about visions of where it should fit in the story or changing the Bz universie. Just reworking all the assets, making a high-res and detailed terrain palette for map/world building, updating all the effects detail. Bringing it to Dx9, the game would be much more immersible with shaders and lighting of today gaming.

Then we'd have a powerful base/platform, from that you could take it anywhere you want, work on SP, mods, extend it with content.

[TheJamsh]

Games suck without a campaign... there NEEDS to be an insanely good storyline behind it. Thats why i've stuck with BZ2 for so long. I actaully really enjoy the storyline writing part of mods.

You've got to bear in mind that GSH & Ultraken are the only two guys with the scource code that are allowed by law to patch the game. (In fact im not entirely sure even thats true). The other BZ2 programmer still employed by Pandemic (Brad Pickering), according to GSH, is 'smart enough to know his free time belongs to him'. I agree totally

Personally i think FE & Fleshstorm fight for the 'closest to BZ3' title but QF isn't far off either. FE probably wins it because its so 'complete', Fleshstorm updates so much about the game but it hasn't been completed (hopefully that will not be true for long). QF was a great mod and looks at the whole war from a smaller POV.

Naturally... i hope i pwn all with s'nesis, bu dev is slow work and i have the oddest feeling BZ2's community wont be very big by the time im done. Doesn't mean it won't be worth it though. Damn i wish id found this community FAR earlier.

[bigbadbogie]

Fleshstorm updates so much about the game but it hasn't been completed (hopefully that will not be true for long).

I have sworn to complete the second part of the trilogy... and depending on its success (and of course if Lizard will let me), I may also do the third part.

[Avatar]

I think any attempt to make a BZ3 should go back to basics...  BZ1 was "Interstate '76" with some bells and whistles, and I think the extreme fun of driving the cars, er, tanks had a LOT to do with the insane love some of us have for the game.  That means, engine-wise, people should be looking at current games that deliver that same physics rush that BZ1 did that are capable of being expanded to support base building.

Using an existing First Person Shooter or Real Time Strategy engine will probably fall short of capturing the same devotion... 

Personally I'm making a HUGE list of how things should work, should the opportunity to move BZ into a new engine arise.  I'd love some sort of flight-sim type engine that has the capability of taking on Production Units and Base Building while maintaining awesome ship physics of all types. 

Of course, politics and such can ruin even the best intentions and engines.  I had high hopes for Breed, but look how that turned out.  How cool was being able to start on the Mothership and pilot the Transport to the surface yourself (if you wanted to)?  Loved it...

-Av-

[AHadley]

I think I missed that, what's Breed?

[Clavin12]

Battlezone II WAS designed to be very modder friendly, and it is.

Unreal III engine is definately NOT free, and ridiculously expensive (try 100's of thousands of dollars to gaming companies).

Changing the engine would change the game and its ease of modding. I havent tried modding other engines, the mere thought of it scares me . should i ever become a programmer, ill be sure to bring BZ2 into a good engine

Perhaps we could start a bz3 foundation