why r u deleting post???

[Commando]

That is understandable Fishbone.  I would have done the same thing, even tough I haven't received any personal PMs from him.  I have seen his posts, which were very disrespectful and insulting.  I don't think I have ever seen a constructive post from Major Tom.

[GSH]

You can talk all you want on other boards. However, the odds of that affecting 1.3-final are less than zero. Basically, if your whole point is to rant, have fun elsewhere.

If you want to be listened to, then you've got to figure out how to present ideas so they'll be accepted. Some have failed miserably at this task. Look at them, and do something different from them.

-- GSH

[Black Hunter]

Good suggestion GSH. However, from wut I've read, a lot of these posts you speak of seem to have already been removed. Is this wut one would call a catch-22?

As for a constructive 1.3-oriented opinion, the flashing outline that occurs when the player is deciding where a building will go wasn't such a good idea. IMO, I find it a little annoying, and would prefer 1.2's steady transparent outline instead.

(I'm pretty sure I'm on-topic in this thread. If not, feel free to shut me up. :p)

[Red Devil]

If you don't like it on your rig, a selection to turn it off was considerately placed in Options\Graphics.

[Black Hunter]

Whupz. Must have missed that. :p

[deadscion]

You can talk all you want on other boards. However, the odds of that affecting 1.3-final are less than zero. Basically, if your whole point is to rant, have fun elsewhere.

If you want to be listened to, then you've got to figure out how to present ideas so they'll be accepted. Some have failed miserably at this task. Look at them, and do something different from them.

-- GSH

The protesting usually comes form not enough public input to the project, not just a select few being rash, however, unfortunately, the select few are the only ones you will hear from in a negative manner.
Nobody cares how you feel about anything with exception to a few, however many more in the background care about how you affect their game.

I remember some of the discussions being held about the "hover bug".

I also remember how closed minded you were about any comments about the subject.

So the protesting now should be no surprise. The reaction of moderators to put down the protesting should be no surprise.

GSH you are the true cause of the trouble which you could have damped to some minor objections not requiring moderation had you allowed a heated debate to run it's course somwhere.

What happened here is pent up frusteration.

Like I said nobody cares how you feel about anything with the exception to a few, but many do care about how you will be affecting their game.

This is a civil response if this gets deleted I will post a copy of it at Gameraters just to show the ignorance.

[GJC]

Although I find these arguments always quite entertaning, the way things are handled by those holding the power (of changing game code or moderating boards) are not at all constructive. Geeks at power ...

The way things are handled (and Im sure will keep getting handled because the few who are in control have a childish enjoyment of their power) 1.3 wont deserve the name 1.3 because for most online players out there it will be just another mod.

[Avatar]

Balance and Unit Performance go hand in hand.

Balance was avoided during the private Beta simply because it inflamed people without resolving things AND because the beta group was recognized as a small percentage of those playing the game.  To truly balance things requires a consensus.

The point of the public Beta is to identify remaining bugs AND provide balance input.  Unfortunately all it took was two minutes of playing by some people and BLAM! the "no hover? this sucks" messages started.  Only now are actual constructive posts showing up IF you can find them among the whining...

Play.  Decide what's wrong.  Post about it in a direct, civil manner in the appropriate thread if there is one.  This is how constructive information is passed along.

-Av-

[deadscion]

no more mouthy mention of whining please.

I don't whine, I tell it like it is and you just don't like to hear it.

I stand by what I said GSH could have avoided a lot of this by allowing it to vent elsewhere, instead he just closed his mind.

you want specifics fine I want to see a 10 point increase in

velocStrafe
accelThrust
and a 3 or so increase in

acceljump

on ISDF scout, tank and missle scout

on Scion scout and sentry

If jump changing a few things will fix it fine, I have my doubts, but I will let you guys do the changes.

[Avatar]

no more mouthy mention of whining please.

I don't whine, I tell it like it is and you just don't like to hear it.

So far you've been one of the more constructive posters, Deadscion, and you shouldn't always jump in as if the preceding post were aimed at you.

Especially in this case...  I don't consider your posts whining at all, but there are a few people here who's posts have been 10/10 whining about either hovering, politics, or some other BS that isn't constructive.  

GSH is blunt online and as one of the two people donating their time he has a right to be.  Demanding things from him or flaming him when he's done this out of his own pocket (so to speak) is ingratitude at it's worst.

-Av-

[appel]

We will see where this 1.3 leads us, I hope things get better in 1.3 Public Beta 2!

[Saint_Proverbius]

Unfortunately all it took was two minutes of playing by some people and BLAM! the "no hover? this sucks" messages started.  Only now are actual constructive posts showing up IF you can find them among the whining...

Two things about all this. The first would be that people generally don't like change from the status quo. Of course there will be some posts from people who play a quick game and then decide they hate it. Accept it, take it for what it's worth(which is a little more than the credit you're giving it, but more on that in a bit), and find out why if they don't actually post the reason. After all, this is a public beta test and you can't expect just everyone in the community to line up behind the thing right off the bat.

The second point, and this is the biggie. You and Wiz aren't helping the process it all. You're making a sham of it. You're both waving your hands dismissively of anyone that posts a criticism of the patch by calling them whiners or flamers. Wiz is taking it one step further with locking threads because they could turn in to a flame war at some point - but I have yet to see him crack down on anyone calling someone that doesn't like the patch a whiner.  

Now, maybe the public beta is a sham and the whole point of it is to say nice things about the patch without criticisms about the physics or other things. I just can't see Ken and Nathan spending their free time off and on over the last three years toiling over a game that a few people really love without actually wanting their opinions on both sides, though. That would be irrational. I think the best point was made in another thread, one that actually got locked, when someone said, "What's the point of spending all that time doing it if many people won't like it?" It's a really good point. Let it sink in, because if this patch doesn't fly(pardon the pun), you've got a small community made smaller by a big, fat division here. To put it simply, division is bad. Tossing around names like whiner and alienating the people who are having complaints by locking threads about the patch certainly doesn't help at all.

All that aside, thanks to Ken and Nathan for the work on the patch. I'm looking forward to playing with it over the next few days. Happy that the AI got some work, since that was my biggest beef with the game since it first came out.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

can my next post be about MY OPNION about hover without it being deleted?

i need to ask for premession for this stuff from players i never see gosh

im sorry to be rude but who let you decide the future of bz2?

[Avatar]

St. P, I'm the one asking that everyone be allowed to express their opinions.  I may have overused the 'whine' bit a little but I do expect everyone to have their say and have expressed that to Wiz.  A few of the initial "this sucks" posters took it too far in email and PM with Wiz and he reacted accordingly.  I can't blame him, when someone makes it personal it's hard to just swallow it.

No, this beta isn't about everyone lining up with praise.  It's not the other way around, though, either.  Grumbling/griping is expected as long as it's done civilly.  Poking into each thread repeating the same stuff over and over is whining, though.  I have no other definition for it.

When someone has 20 posts, and all 20 posts are "this sucks", I call it whining.

-Av-

[GSH]

So far, with certain people blaming everything they dislike about 1.3 on me, they're earning themselves a trip to my mental ignore list. Tip: read the changelog. Note who did things. I did a lot, but I didn't do everything I've been accused of.

Accusations that are factually wrong earn yourself a trip to my mental s**tlist faster than anything else. Several of you have racked up considerable problems there. If you want to be listened to, then please listen to what I just said -- that's what you're insisting I do, is it not?

-- GSH