Scion Rights!

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

hmmm

Get in a game and try taking off with an ISDF scout on flat ground without using strafe... easy.
Now try it in a scion scout without using your strafe thrusters... Very very difficult.

why should i do it without strafe? i think it'll be about the same if you do it right with strafe... im not saying they are the same - hell no.... but once you know to control both they will be about the same, controloed difrent - no doubt but once u get the hang of scions should be np (i think most start with isdf 1st... and not scions... and seems like isdf *is* easier - at start)

[DarkFox]

If you know much about me, you'll know I detest ISDF, and my favourite of the 3 races is scions by a long way.
That being said, since just about everyone picks ISDF most of the time, I've got plenty of experience with both, nearly 50-50.

why should i do it without strafe? i think it'll be about the same if you do it right with strafe...

From the ISDF scout odf:
velocStrafe = 20.0 // [20]
rollStrafe = 0.1 // rolls while strafing [1.7]
omegaTurn = 3.5 // turning while moving speed [3.45]
alphaSteer = 5.5 // how fast it responds to steering [3.]
rollSteer = 0.1 // rolls while steering [.35]

From the SCION scout odf:
velocStrafe = 15.0 // [20]
rollStrafe = 0.085 //rolls while strafing [.2]
omegaTurn = 3.0 //turning while moving speed [4.5]
alphaSteer = 4.0 //how fast it speeds up and slows down to steering [3.9]
rollSteer = 0.07 //rolls while steering [.25]

I think you'll find the scion scout has a slower strafe as well as a slower pitch speed. It *would* have an advantage from being faster at moving forward, but since everybody uses nose-down and strafe to move faster, the ISDF scout ends up beating it in every agility category.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

hmm let me go check  :s

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

after giving the scion scout an agility test this is what i found out    

THEY SUCK!! lol jk

anyways, strafe side to side wasnt 2 much noticed, the pitch! oh my, i never thought its that worse... but anyways - i managed to hover from solid ground, u have to use more forward thrusters though, unlike the isdf scout

once in air they are about the same
i think though, that scions benefit from air catching... (if ur higher then some1 and wanna go down, some1 is beside you and you turn to look at him and go forward towards him) but i couldnt realy test that...
so im just assuming

forward, with a lil bit of hills and bumps id say they are about the same, totaly solid ground (which u cant realy find) isdf are faster

heh, more like 80% of my games are isdf, and i love scion scouts agilty... and i think fly better in scions scouts rather then isdf scouts

i take that back.. i only played with scion scotus in strats, mostly quarry - with lots of hills and i was usualy air, and as i said while testing allover - they are about the same in air...
id say their size metters a bit too, they are smaller which is another small advantge...

bottomline:
isdf scouts are better, but once ur already air doesnt metter that much

[DarkFox]

Oh, hell no, Scion scouts are far better when they get shields, I agree with that one. I was just saying that scion scouts are not manourverable enough to dodge shadowers in mid-air without moving predictably. In a scion scout you just *can't* dodge shadowers and blast at the same time, which is the reason blast tanks + 1 missile scout is a good counter against a team of shielded scion scouts.

[APCs r evil]

From the Scion scout,
pitchPitch = 0.12
pitchThrust = 0.12

From the ISDF scout,
pitchPitch = 0.25
pitchThrust = 0.25

Okay the pitchPitch values are how fast you can move the nose of your ship up and down with the mouse(or whatever you use), the pitchThrust values are how fast your nose jerks up or down when you try to move forward or backward. As you can see the Scion scout values are less than half the amount of the ISDF values which is why they can't fight in the air as well as ISDF scouts can.

But that isn't what I asked you , I asked you WHY the Scion scout values are lower than the ISDF values .

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

Oh, hell no, Scion scouts are far better ......

you got me wrong... i was talking by terms of agility only =)


hmm thats odd @ apc, i seem to have no problem flying with a scion scout, probably as good as i would fly a isdf scout

[EndarkenD]

Well if you want to so called even up the scion and isdf endgame units then wouldnt you have to even up the begining of the game, before scions can get shields?

also scions dont have any weapon like mag cannon. a rckt tank can also hit a warrior thats blinked out of rang.

Lets bring things down a level, in mpis and single player blink is good. in team stratagy it can be a bit of a bitch not being able to kill your apponent. by the way what would you kill a rckt tank with other than a titan without a blink warrior. 1 hit of salvo rckt and a mauler is history and a salvo rckt has semi desint rang.

Pandemic probably spent the time balancing the game..... if you want to adjust the game for team stratagy cool but leave the rest of it alone, blink is their for a reson... if you still hate blink drive a rckt tnk, it costs 65-75 scrap .

[DarkFox]

EndarkenD - the rocket tank's shadower missiles fire only 800m before they dissapear. A warrior can blink much further than that in an instant with ease. Furthermore, all that is required to dodge a shadower is a quick blink 'through' it, whereupon it will arc round and likely dissapear before catching up with you.
Finally, a warrior that blinks up-close to your rocket tank can dance around you, making it alsmost impossible to lock the missiles on, all the while hitting you with arc/gauss, quill/gauss, assault EMP/gauss, or any other powerful combination of scion weapons. Good luck beating it with your salvo rockets, which don't do that much damage against absorbtion shields.

The early game is fine for scions. They have trouble in the opening dogfights, but quill/defl scouts, emp/plasma/defl warriors, or even iongun/stasis sentries are all easy to reach in the tech-tree (easier than chains), and can beat a chainscout, plus attack pools well. They also have gunspires to prevent hovering. They're perfectly balanced until they get blink.
I honestly believe BZ2 was balanced without weapon-switching in mind, and without knowing about effects such as the speed boost from firing EMP at the floor.

[Avatar]

I also think no weight was given to considering the effect on Player confidence that weapons that simulate WARP have...

Pity the poor newbie that jumps into a game against Scions where the opposing team is blinking around like mad.  He'll be cursing the server as laggy without realizing it's a weapon.

There should have been some sort of cool effect during blinking just as there is during morphing...  maybe a blur/shimmer like the Shadow Forces in B5 had...



-Av-

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

more to add about rocket tanks vs wariors... if u blink under the rocket tank it will lose control and almost roll over - making it impossiable to aim while ur being pushed away (who knows, maybe ull fall in waters / to enemy base)

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

out of curiosity...the blink is not correctly shown on the graphics world right? No more 'phasing' of the ships hull though the path of the blink.

If that is corrected, does it apply to FE portals in  mulitplayer as well?

[Commando]

Jwk I think I remember reading that was fixed for the FE portals too.  You'll have to check the change log to confirm this.