Scion Rights!

[AcneVulgaris]

I've played a few ISDF vs SCION games now, and am coming away with the impression that Scions are a bit underpowered.  Anybody else notice this, and/or have suggestions on how to fix it?

[SilverB1rd]

its vary possible, scions have never been the favorate race. There buidl tree is fairly short and option limited.

[BZZERKER]

They do seem under powered during early game in IA to me so I would think this would translate even more so to MP. It's not until you get at least 2 pools upgraded that they start to find their stride.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

u have to be more skilled and knowledge about scions then ISDF, at least 1.2

im not sure how this will help but this is what happends in 1.2...
i realy havnt got in real strats of 1.3 because there is no games because - blah

now, the few games ive played scions (with newbs, 4 way strats) ive beaten them preaty easily...

now, in 1.2 scions are weaker at start but if they get blink they won....
simple - u get blink you won in 1.2

now, the isdf can use AI units to help him match the blink but! the AI uses blink as well... so that gives them advantge.. spire walking is always a great thing, and dont forget that if u can draw the defense fire for long time u can push a builder to demolish your enemy rec in 5 secs...
from there its no problem...
oh, and the maulers are much better... - im just thinking how stuff in 1.3 with what i know so far because i havnt had a chance to test them.. and i find it very hard to get to test that stuff...

[Tempest Storm]

The problem I see with Scions is that once they get their Jammer up in 1.3, its all over for the enemy team IMO...

[GJC]

its vary possible, scions have never been the favorate race.

Was also my impression. What can really make scion problematic is when you build a bunch of scavs and they get stuck in the matriarch. The harder structures made it even harder for them to make it out of the gully.

On the other hand, scion has its advantages. On maps with plenty of lose scrap Id prefer scion any time.

[ReCoN]

I played scions the other day in 1.3.

We won with a mauler rush, similar to a scion win in 1.2.  The smooth mauler run make me less seasick.

Warriors do seem nerfed.  Arc seemed weaker than before.  Also it seemed that absorbtion is more damaged by chain gun than before.  Unlike in 1.2 where Absorbtion can basically be used the whole game on warriors, I was forced to change to stasis.  Not a problem,  this just requires a cmdr to read the situation in the field and adapt.

Still, warriors against blast/chain tanks are a fairly even proposition, with blink being the tie breaker and saving the warriors from converting to scrap.

The changes made in 1.3 are acceptable to me.  I hope the horrible warp situation is fixed.  With a sonic scout, there was no way to accurately hit an Isdf scout unless you were nose to nose.

Still with decent command and a reliable thug, scions have every chance to prevail over Isdf.

[IceWendigo]

I'd like to know from those that think the Scions are slightly disavantaged in the early game, why in your opinion do you think this is?

I'm curious to see your opinion on which factors/aspect/tactic/units, if any, favor the ISDF in the early game, or which factors, if any, disavantages the Scion.

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I think it's more intersting and strategic when the choice of shields is made more tactical by making it more important to know what the enemy is using on the battlefield (greater differenciation).

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Someone mentioned it's all over when the Scions have the Jammer. Why? Is it because by then they have access to all/most of the tech, or that it grants access to a specific and powerful tech, or because of a specific advantage the jammer itself provides ( I might not have been aware of how much it is usefull to have a Jammer around)?

[CmptrWz]

In 1.3 the jammer actually WORKS. As such Scions become much more powerful.

Go try it out yourself :p

[AcneVulgaris]

The last game I played, I was ISDF against Scion.  They did get the jammer, and used blink and maulers, but just couldn't punch through.  I had built abou 15 chain turrets around my rec, and they just couldn't punch through with anything.  I was taking out their titans with a flock of apc's (LOVE the new apc's), and while they could blink back  to base when their warriors got shot up, they couldn't do much damage with them.

After starving them and building up a force, we rolled over and levelled the base.  I did have some difficulty with the jammer, but was able to manually target it for the APC's.

I think that the APC actually working has given the ISDF a pretty big advantage...would be nice to see the bugs get a similar gift.

[MowerMan]

Well Archers are a lot better now I notice...  Once they land, they are difficult to impossible to target.  I don't know if it's enough to balance out, but Archers are definitly better.  Poppers in archers will take out bombers and apcs consistantly.

[Avatar]

They also start firing before they hit the ground now...  pure evil...

I've always felt the Archer's real advantage was sticking to cliffs not easily reached by hovertanks.  That bugs me no end, when someone finds a nice spot to hide one in.  Makes you use Scouts to pinpoint the little buggers for sure...

-Av-

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

were the tweaks made in FE to balence scion vs edf used in 1.3? If not, it might be an idea. Many innoative solutions were made to the balencing problems with the scions.

Yes, it is true that alot of people do not like scions.

However, those that *do*....LOVE scions, and ususally become superbe at them (e.g. darkfox, thats Padisha Dark fox to you human scum!)

[MowerMan]

Jwk...  Is that your own original artwork for your avatar?  I love it .  It's really good (looks a little familiar, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's some quasi-famous piece)

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

It is a photoshop of my face and hair. My family has a very acient british heritage so i guess the blonde haired blue eyed look suits me  

Anyhow, How would the community like if we just took *all* of the tweaks and modifications made in FE rev.c for the scions and slapped them in 1.3...and made our way from there. There will be something that might not quite work as inteneded, but i do think it would be a large step from working from 1.2 scions. E.g. the tweaking that made the sentries really well balenced and a common sight in rev.c (vs a good scion player)

....thats if it was not already done....