@ GSH & KEN

[APCs r evil]

Well I would like to thank Ken and Nathan for patching this game after all they have put up with I just hope they haven't gone forever  although I wouldn't blame them if they did

Ditto. BTW wonderful job on the patch best thing to happen to BZ2 since FE IMO, great job.

[sabrebattletank]

Well I would like to thank Ken and Nathan for patching this game after all they have put up with I just hope they haven't gone forever  although I wouldn't blame them if they did

Ditto. BTW wonderful job on the patch best thing to happen to BZ2 since FE IMO, great job.

Darn. You guys beat me to it.

[Tempest Storm]

Its bound to happen sooner or later, these guys have been with the game for more than 4 years now. They are working on new projects, are their interest is deminishing.

Nathan and Ken's leave could come quite soon, but I would see 1.3 coming out as a final version atleast first.

[† Trinity †]

Nathan took a beating when BZ2 was first released too, as he was a major presence on the boards.  It's really too bad that some people have to be jerks to such well meaning people, just because they disagree with them..

I don't think it had to do with his presence so much as his obnoxious attitude and his ultimate responsibility for the screwed up "net code". Ken was fairly active on the forums but never got tagged the way Nathan did. People liked what he had done and how he conducted himself.

[Tempest Storm]

You know Nathan wasn't the only guy who did the netcode...so you can't tag all of the blame on himself for that...

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

GSH should be more polite and considerate, it is the spark that has constantly started the flame wars. If he was more polite and considerate (and perhaps more lenient) then things would be very different...

and there is no excuse for rudeness, i dont want someone to come in next post and go on about how '' he is just being blunt'' or whatever.

[Avatar]

LOL JWK...

OK, I won't do that...

:p

Regardless of who did what the BZ2 engine is a mess.  I don't think anyone really realizes how much work it was for Nathan, or the areas he poked into that he had no prior exposure to, all to try to fix the game.

Ken avoids all the board BS, which is why he's usually in a much better mood.  He's also more of an artistic sort, which is why he's more open.  

Nate is a coder, and likes logic, examples, and consistancy, all of which have been in short supply where BZ2 is concerned.

In all, most of the burden was Nathans, so I cut him major slack when it comes to his conduct.  You don't beat someone who's volunteering to haul your garbage for free...

-Av-

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Oh of course, i respect Nathan and am very gratefull of what he has done. I just dont think that he should do so many self-righteous stunts and abuse the communities trust in him to solve problems for said community.

E.g, i hate flying, but i dont even slightly agree that ships should be damaged above a certain height. I also think that there should be the abilty to 'partially fly'....just not as obsene as it is in 1.2....

And i HATE flying. I consider it an insult to the other player (as with all exploits). And being insulting is rude. Rudeness is unacceptable.

However, i accept that some people really enjoy it, and it is just as much their game as it is mine. So .'. although flying should be changed from its obsene power of 1.2...it should still be thier in some shape or form.

However i would rather 1.3 came out with 1.2 physics and all the other bugs crushed...than not be accepted by the community at all.

As to reguards to GSH's conduct....
Well...i think the list of respectable players who have left the beta along the way is a track record.
What is that list anyway, has anyone compiled it?

[Tempest Storm]

Problem with publishing 1.3 with 1.2 physics is that the only way to do it would be to start back at square 1. 1.3's physics changes intertwine with way too much code to simply cut and paste 1.2 code back in, everything would pretty much break and crumble. And nobody wants to take 1.2's code and refill all the data in the changelog aside from physics changes...

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

the current physics are acceptable...however i would make scouts like they had in the experimental rec as the defult.

[deadscion]

Problem with publishing 1.3 with 1.2 physics is that the only way to do it would be to start back at square 1. 1.3's physics changes intertwine with way too much code to simply cut and paste 1.2 code back in, everything would pretty much break and crumble. And nobody wants to take 1.2's code and refill all the data in the changelog aside from physics changes...

The only thing I hear you saying is Ken changed it and Ken knows where to unchange it. While GSH can only guess at exactly what Ken did even with documentation.

However, you and a few others would have us believe the 1.2 physics in the 1.3 patch is an impossibility just to get people to stop asking for it.

Sorry guys, but I just don't buy it.

[Tempest Storm]

Go into the changelog and count how many physics related changes there are.

Try and figure out how many of those work in the same area of the code. (Some of the entries even state what file was changed for them)

Then try and see how long it would take to change it back.

THEN tell me I'm BSing you.

[CmptrWz]

Lets assume all physics are based on something simple. Like a vector.

Now, lets assume that, for some reason, vectors were changed slightly, to fix some obscure bug or something, or perhaps due to compile issues.

Now, if we assume that all the physics code was changed to work with the new vectors then the old vector code would not work, and as such 1.2 physics code could not just be dumped into 1.3.

Then take that several levels higher, with multiple fundamental things changing for important reasons, and try to explain how it is "easy" to put 1.2 physics back. When you fail you can finally shut up about it.

[deadscion]

You are the people who used words like, cheating, morality, perversion in reference to the 1.2 physics and now you use the excuse it is too hard to put it back?

What you are saying is you guys have permanently set this stuff up to suit your own purposes and everyone else is just left out.

Sounds like a mess you don't want to clean up, a one sided mess.

OH and CmptrWz don't tell ME to shut,,,,,

This is just not right, just not right.

[DarkFox]

I can't believe people still believe it's some kind of problem to get reasonable flying back as a shell option.

*****IT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE*****

The latest build introduced air-damage to destroy the hopes of those that enjoyed the experimental rec. The people that stand by and say that a flying shell option for 1.3 is difficult to code are deluding themselves. Nathan and Ken didn't have to lift a finger to do it, it was done *for* them in the form of the experimental rec. Nathan put a fair bit of his own work in to introduce air damage simply to destroy the shell option approach to flying.