(Medium Suggestion) Definition of a Win

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

I have always thought that it was odd how you could have a powerful powered and functioning base but it lost if it did not have a Factroy or a Recycler. and you could still put up a fight against the other team...but you are told you lost anyway.

Perhaps adding the Service bay/ Dower defined as a 'critical building' (i.e. the same as a factory or Rec) meaning that an opposing team could still win...mabey...even if both their factory and their recycler is lost.

[Knight]

I agree,
 It's still possible to fight on if you have a large army on the move and your recycler is destroyed. Perhaps you can still manage to take out your opponants then it's down to fighting with what each has left.
 The down side of that is that if hte opponant has just one or two units he could hide and the game would never end.
 Knight.

[FlashFire]

Yeah. Different kinds of Stragety with differnt terms of winning. That be awsome!

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Yes, if you hid one or two units you could never die....thats why i think having powers, Gts, and just about every building as 'non-critical'...its just the service bay/dower is almost always near the base, counts as a 'critical building' because it could keep the units up and running' and because its a 4 square building...it would be exceedingly difficult to hide it in an unreachable place...

i think having the service bay/ dower count as a critical building would be cool, and would also make some interesting games.....both teams destroy eachothers recs and factorys...and its down to just the few units that are left That would be a great game.

[Speedy]

Thats also mod territory. We're not trying to change the whole game, just fix whats wrong and leave the cooler things for mods such as FE where we have more control.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea: its great! With a service bay, you can still win the game but its much harder. It would be a great addition to the game and bring in more strategy. Possibly it should be made possible through modding and maybe FE 1.3 could have it.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

1.3 is a patch...yes...but its also an 'enhancement' as well.

I think this should be included in 1.3... and failing that i think it Must be made an option for modifications and such. Some kind of line in the odf that says something like


Critbuilding = 0/1

0 being no, 1 being yes

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

just give a team 2 mins after their rec + fac is gone..

cause after 2 mins u cant build units anymore - lack of scrap (pools)
and the enemy just getting bigger... in the 1st 2 mins u still have a chance

but i tihnk its ok right now...

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

but that would be two min of nothing to do...people would give up and wait around for two min...not fun.

Having the servicebay as the critical building gives the opposition something to destroy, the defenders something to defend, and also gives them abilty to replenish damage and ammunition...which gives them a chance.

it would be cool, fun and add another level of stratergy to a game. Not ot mention there is going to be a game when neither team has a rec or fact, and that would be very fun to be apart of....tense and hard toplay.

Also, it would mean if you lose the rec and the fact...but still have a constructor you would be able to remake the fact. cool!

Edit: Dark fox made a good point on msn a few seconds ago.
Everything works perfectly, and it would a good addition to the game, but it would cause a problem in 'one' scenario. Namely if everyone loses all units and the only things left are service bay and piolets with pulse.

Well firstly even in that situation they would probably be able to remake a fact (assuming they have enough scrap)....and if they still have their armoury they would be able to equip themselves with...rocket launchers!!!

and if all everyone has is pulses...very rare occourcen...the server can declare a draw!

all ends tied up

[SilverB1rd]

Even with the current system the end game can be rather long and drawn out. I think the current system is good becuase it helps keep game lagnth under control.

[Tempest Storm]

Maybe it might be an idea to just have the game state "Team soandso Won, killed Team Whatever's Recycler and Factory" and then just leave it at that, from therein you can play the game to your own will and just have the players leave the game when they want to leave.

[Marksman]

How about the games ends when one teams scrap bar is gone. Even with a factory left, it's not very useful without scrap.

I suppose you'd have to add "no scavs left" to that. If there are scavs left, you might be able to plant them somewhere.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

if u have units u can demolish  them and with constructor u can demolish buildings (also enemy buildings )

+ at start.. when u build ur 1st scavs u have 0 scrap for awhile... great - both teams lost


the bay sounds nice... but ususlay when no rec / fac both teams will go for the con and enemy units

i find it hard to belive a situation that both teams are pilots with pulse and with a con still up

but sounds like a nice idea overall.. can be abit annoying cause when u have no rec and cant kill the enemy rec within 2 mins u already lost the game for sure

waiting for another building to go down is just - bah
ppl get bored and annoyed waiting for enemy to get btb for ammo then back to kill the fac

[SilverB1rd]

This is something that should go in the Maps and Mods since its all possible to change it in the dll anyway.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Firstly...since quite a few people like the idea (or those i have talked to) lets make it an 'option' to be tested (just like the different rec types atm).

That way we can have a definate answer of weather or not it is worth inculding.

Secondly, i think having a 'CritBuilding=0/1' option abilty within the ODFS will make it easier to modify games. So should be inculded if at all possiable.

[OvermindDL1]

The thing is, this CritBuilding parameter would be absolutely and completely non-functional.  BZ2 does not do the win condition checking, it is down by the dll.  Now if you want a dll for a map you are making to have that condition, I could whip that up in less then 2 minutes if you want, but BZ2 will never do the win condition checking, ergo the odf's parameters are useless.