Confusion on behalf of the editor.

[Tempest Storm]

"1) If I ever edited anything online, it was not to cheat, but to test out stuff with other people, or to simply make the game more exciting."

And what you would do is most definately what everyone else would do.

"2) Bzedit.exe is lame, you can't run scripts in it, and as mentioned above."

Yep, what a massive problem. I can't make a super huge base for myself in IA anymore..the editor sucks now! Despite the fact that this could be fixed, it just sucks instead. Good way to get it changed...

"3) Since when has editing online been considered major cheating? Since never. If it ever happened, it was rare, and people just left if they cheated."

This is coming from the guy that said that 1,3 would msot definately eliminate all bugs, as it was its mission...

"4) Probably will end up in people not using 1.3, that feel like me about the change in editing, which would mean some, or most, of your efforts would be in vain."

Once again, giving it no chance whatsoever is definately helping.

"5) 1.3 was made to ENHANCE Battlezone 2, not DISHANCE, correct? Making the editor like this dishances it, IMHO."

Game balance and playability come first, modding comes second, what only a small fraction of the community will use is not to be considered high priority. And 1.3 is already having enough trouble with what is high priority already. :/

[Angstromicus]

The editor can have a big effect on playability.

It can make the game a lot more fun, and, If I'm not mistaken, it can really help in mod testing.

[OvermindDL1]

I just use my dll, I just input whatever odf I want it to load (for example) into a cvar, set an ivar saying create it in front of me, I just raise the ivar each time I want it to create another.  The editor is not always neceessary for testing, plus this way is much faster.

[Angstromicus]

oh, ok, I've just never been good at dll scripting (it just looks like a bunch of random charachters to me).

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

players (and modders) have a right to an EASY TO USE system, dll scripting is a damned sight harder than the old editor


Why not just have one exe for MP STRAT, and one for *everything* else...mp DM, mpI etc etc......and have the second one with a 1.2 style editor.

nay! have the second actually have editor even 'easier' to have than 1.2....


No body...and i mean nobody minds if an MP DM or MPI or Single player or IA is edited.....

MP STRAT is the strat is the *only* place where MP editing is considered bad.

So why not make the solution TARGET SPECIFIC, instead of the currently simple and ineffective attempt at a solution.

[Fishbone]

One important error. We dont have any rights at all.
To say that we have a right to get this and that in a patch is no true. Why do you think you can dictate what another person is doing without paying for it?

And I do mind edited MPI. lots of gamestats, synchs.
Plus newbie come into an edited game and see that something is wrong. = very bad first impression to a game where every newbie counts!

Not being able to run dlls in the editor?
What would be the reasons to run a dll in editor?
The only reason I see is that you cannot test aips.
but you can test them with bzone.exe
whats the big deal here?

[OvermindDL1]

I havn't had a need to run the dll in the editor, some others have but I make the dll's not the maps so I cannot really say.  I still like the idea that we all pitch in $20 or so to GSH, then he would be compensated and would be a heck of a lot more willing to put in any option we so desire...

[Spawn]

i agree with you completely.  There are over 400 members here, and if everyone just pitches in 5 dollars, thats 2000 at least...but i think the problem is that many people are young, thus either have no nomey, or their parents wont let them send cash to some random person (to the parents at least).

[GSH]

bzone.exe and bz2edit.exe will never be reunited. Security comes over "features." If an edited map is so "fun" to play, then learn how to save it. Then people who are interested can play it.

And, I don't like the idea of strings attached to money. Some joker will say "here's $20, make 1.3 run on a gameboy." Or any of a million things way beyond my time or interest.

-- GSH

[Black Hunter]

@OvermindDL1...
Ah, but not everyone can do that, or have the means to achieving anything of the like. I get the feeling that it took a while before you could work with DLLs with such high confidence.

@Total Oblivion Omnis... (Post #15)
Those are some valid points, Oblivion, though I have a hunch that some folks who don't need naming would disagree with them zealously. There is also a whole other side to the matter that isn't so positive, and as human nature would have it, that which irks most gets the most attention. You see, online testing aside, even though MP games could potentially be enhanced somewut, not everyone would put up a notice that a game has been edited, either because of forgetfulness or they just want to trick some people into an unwinnable sitch just to get that little stroke for their ego. I would guess sore losers or the less-than-honorable anonymous players who hide behind multiple nicknames would be among such @$$holes would stoop to such a level, but don't take my word on that, since I've had no bad experiences with edited games.

As for my opinion on the present 1.3 editor, the one word I'd use to describe it is castrated. I applaude the effort to eliminate the less-than-rampant editor-based cheating going on, but come on... was it really necessary to throw the baby out with the bath-water? Jwk definitely is correct in asserting an easy-to-use system is necessary, otherwise with the way good people like Lizard are leaving, new blood could diminish, and BZ2 modders could become an endagered species. I'm just glad repair of the editor will be considered.

@Fishbone...
Well, people like me, whose modding ventures often don't go far beyond weapons, ODFs, and the odd cut&paste addon, depend heavily on the 1.2 editor to be able to test the fruits of our labor. Not many would be adept to more specialized editing styles like your own, and even fewer would have the fortitude to learn approaches to editing that require too much more than a simple click-type-&-drop. Frustration is an excellent deterrent to expansion of one's skills.

@GSH...
Perhaps, but wut of the people who paid the retail price of $70 (tax not included) for the game? Are you just going to tell them you don't give a rat's @$$ about wut they think should or shouldn't be done to enhance Battlezone II? No, it is not the offering of money I think should be given a little extra consideration, but rather, one of the things it symbolizes: the gift of trust.

Oh, and while I still have your attention, I would like to point out that my original question regarding your intentions still stands, "Tell us please, GSH, in the bigger picture, wut do you want to get out of Battlezone II 1.3 ultimately?"

[Angstromicus]

lol, I got the game for 12$ (not including shipping)

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

£40 for me. And i got it from *Ammo*ing 'dixons'.  I never want to by something from them again!..I asked them time and time again if they had it, they said flat out 'no'...and then i found it under a pile of some action shooter that had 30 copys on the shelf.

ooo, i was angry...

[Angstromicus]

I order my games usually.

[Speedy]

I actually got it for free. A long time ago when we bought our Gateway computer, there was a misunderstanding about the software packages we wanted. First we wanted the games package and then we chose the encyclopedia package. The guy at the counter got confused and put both down, although he didn't realize he was only charging for one. When we got the receipt, it showed both packages but only one price. We told the guy but it was too late to change it, the order was already sent.

So we got 5 games for free over a stupid little mistake. That silly mistake got me bz2: my favorite game of all time!

[FoxBlade]

it would require too much specific work on the executable.