(Medium bug)Thermal Missiles(would be NICE if it was fixed!)

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Thermal Missiles do not lock onto a ship with VIR phantom! Reguardless of the 'type' of lock-on.

It may not matter to much in 1.2/1.3, where the only thermal missiles are Faf and Stinger missiles and a lock-on Hornet rocket.

But in Mods like FE this is really important.

Really important.

Also, themal missiles never used neutralized by VIR phantom in BZI. The ODFs specifically have themal and visual as two seperate classes, and nothing in the odfs of the weapons say that they should be neutralized by Phantom VIR.

It is important that themal missiles successfully lock onto VIR phantom as if it was not their.

[DarkFox]

I agree with the 'major' status of this but. Visual image refractment? Doesn't say much about heat there.
This was always something that really bugged me about battlezone2, it's incredibly irritating that there is no missile strategy when faced with VIR. I can imagine seeing FAF used when the enemy team gets VIR, or even, *gasp*, tag cannon!

It makes blinding sense, it would improve the games intricate loadout strategy somewhat, *AND* it would give modders more options to play with.

It's major alright.

[Dirty Rooster]

Yes it would make a major improvement, but
it isn't a game-crippling bug and has been pretty
much ignored the last five years.

I'd like to see Fafs and stingers work against VIR.

[Michael]

I agree, it has been confusing me for a long time why this was never done. It would seem that VIR would cancel the shadower locks, since its the "SHADOWER" and locks onto images but not the heat rockets. And when you use REDFIELD, then the hornet, faf, and stingers would not lock on, while shadower would.

I am almost wondering if it was actually intended or if it was just an oversight.
But it would be great for hornet, faf, stingers to lock onto VIR. . . .

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Redfield was also from BZI, it is fine (although i would reduce its ammo) and it nuetralises Radar locking weaponry (e.g. comet cruise) and does not allow someone to 'target' something. Infact Radar Dampening was fixed in 1.3, making jammers for once actually useful.

I would very much like the same thing to happen for Thermal missiles. Hell, we might make a new special weapon that counter acts thermal missiles but not visual.

Actually, i really want to see the abilty to make that at least.

[Zero Angel]

I thought MAJOR BUG would be saved for any real game breaking bugs like big framerate hits whenever you do something that shouldnt cause those hits, but yeah, it'd be nice to have fixed. I'd call it a medium bug, but whatever.

[BZZERKER]

I'd call it a "polishing tweak".

[Avatar]

This would very properly be termed a Kencodeâ,,¢ thing, and while it would probably be trivial for him to do we'd have to look for unintended effects, such as GT/GS's not firing, etc..  Extreme caution has to be used when changing weapons so as not to make for an invulnerable ship/weapon combo...

The radar damping is a good example, as units near a Scion Jammer were at first completely shielded from you telling the AI to attack them.  Messy...

-Av-

[Dirty Rooster]

On the subject of jammers,
last strat vs scions I was in, the jammers DID
prevent me from targetting anything near them
for my AI. As I didn't have any effective thugs and
had to defend my base alone, I just couldn't attack
anything, not with tanks, assault units, APCs or bomber.

We had to call it a draw ...

Avatar you imply that -now- I can target stuff for AI when
they are near a jammer ... erm how??

[Avatar]

This WAS reported during the closed beta and I was pretty sure it was addressed...   I can't check the changelog, or fire up the game as I'm at work.  If the Jammer is still FUBAR'd (German Word ) it's definately a MAJOR bug.

Hmmm, seems like Ken split some of the jamer functions out into seperate ODF entries, or at least seperate processes.  It may need only an ODF tweak to fix.  I'll be looking when I get home....

-Av-

[DarkFox]

If the Jammer is still FUBAR'd (German Word  ) it's definately a MAJOR bug.

A bug? No, this is a balance issue, a new feature, not a bug. The Jammer was INTENDED to stop ISDF players using AI units. It was meant as the scion form of bomber defense, as well as a useful tool for the scions.

Try using archers, or anything else, for that matter, as a scion defense against bombers. You'll quickly realise why the Jammer works how it does. I, personally, find it much easier to destroy a 1000-health, large target with no weapons than I do destroying a 3000-health, heavily armed, much smaller rocket tank sitting on a service bay... Both are bomber defense.

Plus, with the ridiculously low amount of health a jammer has, I'm amazed anyone could moan about it in it's present state. It's gone from being completely useless to being marginally useful, but still bad, and here you are saying it needs to be weakened again! God, leave it alone, don't you think the poor jammer has been through enough?

As a final point, try to figure out HOW your tank's HUD would successfully tell another units, AI or human, to attack a unit that, as far as the tank is concerned, does not exist. When thinking about it that way, the only solution I can think of is to manually tell the wingman where the jammer is on the battlefield, and ask him to go there. Placing a nav beacon near the jammer and sending your AI units there is a pretty good way to do this. Even this is too much, IMO. From the single player missions it's quite clear that not only does the jammer prevent radar, targetting etc, it also prevents the communications. Remember that early mission where shabayev's voice communication is jammed by the jammer?

Bottom-line - the way the jammer now works is a new feature, not a bug. It also makes a lot of sense from the experiences of the single player campaign, and it helps give scions a way of counteracting the bomber, which is incredibly useful for levelling the playing firld, particularly in 1v1, where the bomber was far too good.

[DarkFox]

Just another note: I propose that the jammer be made *more* powerful - I propose that AI scouts NOT highlight enemy units within 200m of the jammer. That way, even with an AI scout following you the jammer would still be an anti-bomber defense. Similarly, I'd like the jammer to remove the 'paint' effect when a teammate tells you to 'attack their target'. This way the jammer would be the effective bomber-defense that it was supposed to be. It's cost should probably be increased to about 65 in light of these changes.

[technoid]

Is it me or does the jammer also jam your own team's functions?  I always found it annoying in 1.2 how your own jammers kept your scavs from picking up loose scrap near your jammer(s) fields.  Haven't tested them yet in 1.3, since I totally forgot about them.  

[Tempest Storm]

I like how the jammer works, but in a 1v1 game Scions are pretty much invincible. If the Jammer is dug in a base, or around a good amount of Gun Spires, there is no way you are going to be taking it out all by your lonesome self.

[DarkFox]

I like how the jammer works, but in a 1v1 game Scions are pretty much invincible. If the Jammer is dug in a base, or around a good amount of Gun Spires, there is no way you are going to be taking it out all by your lonesome self.

I strongly disagree. Jammers have 1000 health. That means it requires 3 hits from a mortar to destroy. If you're a half-decent shot with a mortar, that's a *very* easy task to accomplish.

Furthermore, utilising weapon-switching well, it's quite possible to kill the jammer with the standard blast/chain/mortar tank in *under* 2 seconds. Count two seconds out in your head now... That's a dead jammer.


Now consider the effect that the bomber has on those 'unbeatable' scions in a 1v1 games.


As for this whole 'scions unbeatable' issue, I still stand strong and say, if you use a service truck, beating blink is hard, but not impossible. Hell, once I won a 1v1 against a pretty well-known player using scions by using a tug pulling a service pod. The advantage of blink is all about the fact that you have to go back to base whenever they blink off, hence the reason trucks, especially in serviced-assaults with Atanks, are so important.