New 1.3 Bugs (or are they)

[BZ FeebleEffort]

The "weakness" of the 1.3 turret was "discovered" VERY VERY long ago. It is harder to kill than a stock 1.2 turret which was certianly a INTENDED design change, but it was left with a small flaw, one that 90% of dedicated 1.2 and ZST players will learn very quickily. It was known and discussed and rightfully decided to NOT try to change them further, again, seriously discussed, tested and agreed upon, and that was at a time when there was a fair amount of experienced 1.2 MP strat players testing 1.3.

Saying a 1.3 player "knows" how to use a mortar to turret kill is shortsighted, Mortar is a viable option in MPI or in a 1v1 game, but in 4v4 MP games u MIGHT get time to kill 1 turret w/ Mortar, but 90% of the time, opponents are gonna chase you off.....Its the whole story of designing for MPI vs Designing for MP Strat.

Again, this isn't a flame, just a little glimpse of what happened nearly 2 YEARS ago when turrets were being played around with, and why I suggest now, you leave them alone until u get a large pool of human strat players before u start playing with them.

They are they way they are for a reason, go back on the 1.3 beta boards about 2 years ago and you'll probably find some civil(and not so civil) discussions on the turrets....that was before we(some of us) completely desintegrated on testing 1.3.

[Spawn]

to each his own eh?
i can live with that

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

APCs, play 2-3 weeks in some serious ZST games including players like  mad-dog, grass, sentient, hammer, TV [if he'll play], D-MAN, claw, det, bb, both DSes, pred etc' and then come here and tell me 1.3 players are better / smarter then them

gosh, a 1.3 player probably have no chance vs an expreniced 1.2 ZST player - even in 1.3 game


p.s
once again, dont take it as an offense - its just a good lil argue :p
I realy dont think it will get out of hand or anything

[Spawn]

apc was only saying how a 1.2 player will use superior doggy ability/hover (many die, good ones wont tho) but the 1.3 noob who makes a stock tank can kill the turrets till they are just as dead.  Apc doesnt play 1.2, and he aint good with the physics anyway.  he could play in zst, but he doesnt really know 1.2 flow, and he likes weird ships.  Oh well, just me talking here...
i tried to get him to come before...

[APCs r evil]

No can do PhoeniX, I've abandoned 1.2, except for a very rare FE game . And I'm not saying 1.3 players are smarter, hell I've seen at least four that don't even know how to upgrade the Kiln or Antenna, I'm saying they would probably fare better against a ZST level turret in a 1v1 situtation than the 1.2 people who would rather get within the turrets range and chain it to death instead of taking a little more time to use a longer range weapon and have a nice distance to start running from an enemy before they can even hit you.

to each his own eh?
i can live with that

I took that concept into consideration a few hours ago and created a recycler variant that can build the ZST level turrets while leaving stock turrets alone. Ahh, options .

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

all sounds nice and dandy, getting a stock tank, too bad you usualy cant spare the power for it + chain kills it alot faster, some can kill it with chains, and the others think they can do it, and if you got stock tank while they 'lock' you down with turrets most likely they almost have blast --> at least chain scouts, and i can assure you your tank is dead

in 1v1 MAYBE it will be better, but thats why you dont play 1v1 on ZST for the simple reason - you just cant

[Wingflier]

Damn Avatar...you are always so quick on that lock button...

What's so bad about letting us hash it out?

Adam

[Avatar]

I am, if anything, much more tolerant than any other Admin around.  I've actually asked that threads not be locked, I think one was entitled "Let them have their say" or some such thing.

In this case I knew exactly what sort of dynamite was being played with.  Turret discussions get ugly fast.  To head that off I simply inserted a subtle reminder that funtime can end abruptly if a little restraint isn't exercised.

Keep it from becoming personal and discuss away, I won't interfere.  Flame, and it goes bye-bye.

-Av-

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

nothing personal, just some good discussion about what turrets modding can do

[Spawn]

how about a super turret that can kill 4 things at once, sure, its overpowered, but it would be funny as hell!!

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

no, its lame  

[Avatar]

nothing personal, just some good discussion about what turrets modding can do

Exactly.  Excellent!  I love such discussions!  We NEED such discussions!

Sadly, it usually turns into "you freakin idiot" or "you don't know jack" so fast it makes my head spin.  Keeping it decent and getting input from knowledgable players makes it pure gold, but keeping it civil is like juggling nitro...

-Av-

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

Av, you freakin idiot - you dont know jack :p

jk bro

I hear ya

anyways, whoever suggested turrets to be better should try ZST, and if you dont manage to kill them with mini / chain scout watch how the vets do it, then think about the fact it cant be done in 1.3
then tell me - and ill show you that 'lockdown' thingy im talking about

[Bull Dog]

Something worth mentioning is that the Turret rotational speed had to be lowered becuase the AI now shoots at the target lead indicator instead of the actual target. They even do that at lvl 0.

[Mother's Helper]

Hi alll -

Hey - one reason that I usually start play during a 1.3 game with a MSL Scout is because I can take out turrets at a distance without being destroyed.  

Also, you can adjust the AI Turret skill on Core66 games on the second screen.  Just lower the AI turret skill from "high" to "Medium" if it is really too tough for you.

Mother's Helper