Balance - since I missed the last topic

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

skills = knowledge

and if I can lets say, build an armory in 4 mins theres no reason in the world why you shouldnt after practicing and training

in the example I gave, 1 person knew where to spend the money while the other didnt
just like skills, one has skills and one doesnt, and skills are something you can gain, its not something that you are born with and cant change

[Angelwing]

Not really, knowledge is nothing if you get so nervy you don't know where to apply it (or if you're incredibly dyslexic), not everyone can think clearly in the heat of the moment, just as not everyone is born with super-fast reflexes/reactions.

[Red Devil]

 Well said, both of you.  I guess that's the difference beween skills and talent.  Kinda like watching Michael Jordan go up against Kobe Bryant.  They both have skill, but Michael has talent.

[Spawn]

what does commanding have to do with basketball?
if you have terriffic reflexes it wont halp you command, you need to be able to think and predict, not just react

if you cannot apply your knowledge its not knowledge

[APCs r evil]

Okay, I have a quick question about Guardians here, followed by a much longer question about both race's turrets.

As I'm sure most if not all of you know, 1.3 reduced the Guardian's stock scrap cost to 40 from 45. Who here thinks it should be returned to 45 for both the stock and upgraded Guardian? I'll post the stats of the two turrets if you want. (That was the quick question.)

Now, for the other question. At the beginning of a game, Scions are supposed to have an advantage over the ISDF because they can drop Solar Flares on Turrets, correct? Now, because of 1.3's better AI, turrets had to be weakened in some way, so they were weakened in their head's spin speed, as I'm sure most of you have noticed. Now, since both the Guardian and the Turret were both reduced equally, Scions have lost a good portion of their early advantage, as the ISDF can circle kill the Guardians just as easily as the Scions can circle Turrets. It is also because of this that it is very difficult for a single turret to stop a fast unit. Now turrets can be placed in groups to reduce the effectiveness of circling, but no matter how large the group, a fast unit can easily speed through the turrets without sustaining much damage. Your thoughts on these issues?

[Red Devil]

 I think the turrets should be able to nail you if you get in their range.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

I think the turrets should be able to nail you if you get in their range.

a simple thing that will easily destroy gaming
why? because if its unkillable when you get in its range at that low cost its gonna be raining turrets and everywhere on the map you go you'll get wasted because the other team sent turrets all over the map, its simple & deadly, so why shouldnt people send turret out?

Guardian should be back to 45 as they are stronger and I like the idea of scion scout costing 45 vs 50 for ISDF and rattler 40 vs 45 Guardian

Guardians > ISDF turret


and I dont understand the second question realy, its like what you described in ZST as well, only instead of circling it you need to hover it (with skills ofcourse, simple hover will get you wacked)

[APCs r evil]

Well, fire up 1.3, go to IA Dunes (You as Scion vs ISDF), turn on bzbody, and move around any of the Turrets. You will notice that they can't turn fast enough to shoot you at close range, as long as you keep moving.

[Avatar]

As a warning, Turrets are a VERY HOT ITEM...  tread carefully.

The general increase in AI capability is one of the big things the beta team argued over, with Turrets being one of the more specific cases.  Maybe look to ZST for turret guidlines??

If anyone cares, I'm very much in favor of turrets only being effective against starting units.  They have their place at the beginning of the game and after that let them take a back seat to the big boys.   So they should be decent against stock Scouts, mediocre against Sabres, and totally owned by Rocket/Assault/Walkers...

I do love a ring of Turrets in FE with Heavy Chain...  beauty...

-Av-

[Spawn]

well avatar, the problem with turrets being effective against starting units is mass rats in the field.

you can send turrets to all the pools and the enemy cant kill them, the enemy will never be able to reach late or midgame by the time you can kill them

the zst rat would be way too powerful, it would be invincible now that you cant properly hump or rainbow a turret.  one rat would be immortal, this is not good fyi

[APCs r evil]

I agree Avatar, but 1.3's turrets are only effective against scouts and light units when in spread-out clusters, and even then they cannot stop a fast unit from speeding past. All they can do is be placed in base, they can't be effective in the field.

[Angelwing]

You'd still be able to kill them, but it'd just take a lot longer to do without rushing them with a full-on high-speed mini/faf spamming. I never really liked it when people 'humped' turrets anyway, but rainbowing was a nice tactic. I dunno, I don't want them to be so bad that you can simply run circles around them like with 1.2 stock rats, but then I don't want them to never miss and rip you to pieces either. Could just modify the weapon on it I guess (being that it's the only thing on the ISDF team that uses assault guns) - so it'd still aim well, just not have such a great effect. I'd personally like to see a little Shotvariance on them, but that has the drawback of making them a lot weaker at their max range.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

bring hover back and use ZST rats
best solution

[Red Devil]

Wise guy.

How does scalable turrets sound?  i.e. The available turrets get better as the tech increases.

[APCs r evil]

Hmm, I imagine it's possible to increase the spin speed just enough to make it so only scouts can circle turrets, and even then not nearly as easily as they can now. That would make them better at stopping fast units from zipping by..

P.S. Does anyone else think the Guardian scrap cost should be restored to 45?