Preliminary Physics Tweaks Posted

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

"Vets" had a chance to participate in the past. They blew it.

-- GSH

"Devs" had a chance to come up with something playable in the past. they blew it.


-- PF



?

I could probably write about 100 more pages but that should suffice

[BZZERKER]

Do we really have to go there PF?

[appel]

GSH is ignorant by choice, you cannot help him.


Anyway, what I think about the scout now is:

- Might be going a tiny bit too slow forward.
also most important:
- The ground *catches* you, which can be annoying. Don't know how I can explain this, but this is the same thing I said in 1.3pb1. When climbing hills, going fast forward, the ground seems to *catch* your ship and try to adjust you. (http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/index.php/topic,1639.0.html)
- There is still ground-bouncing
- No reverse-throttle so you can control your descent.

I'm not sure if those things can be fixed, as you guys said it's not possible to put hovering back in... but that's not what I'm asking for. It seems like GSH really messed it up so no compromise can be reached with this new scout.

Anyway, if not any of those 3 last things I mentioned can be fixed, I'm pretty sure the days of me testing this are over. Which is unfortunate, since I was hoping those things could be adjusted and weren't hard-coded into the engine.

[Avatar]

"Vets" had a chance to participate in the past. They blew it.-- GSH

"Devs" had a chance to come up with something playable in the past. they blew it.-- PF

This is what I was talking about.  Let me explain where PF is missing the point, along with many other 'Vets'.

The simple version is that the inital Beta Team "Vets" were part of a BETA process.  A BETA process is not about instantly making a broken product fun.  There are many non-fun, non-playable parts that come between the broken and final products. There have been many times during the process that the BETA was totally unplayable for a period.  The original Beta Team 'Vets' couldn't handle the early, non-fun stages any more than the remaining Beta Team 'Modders' can handle (successfully in the eyes of the Vets) the final 'make it fun' parts.

We don't need more personality crap, more flames, more whining or more "GSH sucks" comments.

We need to recognize that NOW is the time the Vets should have been waiting for, when the bugs are squashed and the physics and playability are the focus.

C'mon kids, pull out some class, swallow your egos and step up to the plate to finish this baby...

appel, VERY nice report.  Thank you, it's exactly what's needed.

-Av-

[Red Devil]

Yes, the devs are basically re-writing large portions of half a billion lines of BZ2 bit by bit (heh) and it's all inter-related, so it's like trying to untangle spaghetti.  To expect them to basically wave a wand and make it all the way we want it when we want it is unrealisitc at best. 

I look at it this way: Nathan and Ken are building a bigger and better house for us to live in.  If you criticize them and insult them, of course they're going to throw it right back in your face and tell you to piss off.  I would do the same thing and so would you if it were you.

If people want to bite the hand that feeds them then they should just not participate.  If they want to help, then they should leave their attitudes at the door.

Okay now, group hug everybody.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

I didnt miss no point Av.

A BETA process is not about instantly making a broken product fun.

I'm well aware of that, and let me just add that when 1.3 was during its first build vets had no place in the beta team - note what I'm saying - I aint saying vets werent there - vets werent needed - so surely they'll get bored!
the devs should've accepted vets opnion when the opnion was needed - not call on them when they can preaty much do nothnig to help.

Nathan and Ken are building a bigger and better house for us to live in.  If you criticize them and insult them, of course they're going to throw it right back in your face and tell you to piss off.

if they' throw away the furniture you like , of course you're goung to criticize and inslut them, espicely when they give you a piss-off attitude while thrownig you stuff out

Do we really have to go there PF?

are you sure you're directing the question to the right person?
when the attitude on the other fence hasnt changed why should all of the sudden out of the blue I should change mine and be walked on?


I had every wish to help and finish this project about 2 weeks ago, I realy did, but after reading GSH comment its simlpy gone in a heart-bit

your request is for me to be a rug and get walked on, but sorry, I wont be walked on, espicely not twice.




as its Red Devil's project to fix 1.3 and making it for the better off the community I will however help when & if I can (if its wanted still?) but I wont do it on this board, not for 1.3s sake and without a doubt not for GSH

[Avatar]

*sigh*



-Av-

[BZZERKER]

Well PF, let me ask you this...Do you bite every baited hook you see?

The vets that were beta left on their own kicking and screaming because they lost their precious nosedown (how short sighted of them), now their back saying "we weren't part of the process".....I have one thing left to say on this topic and that is MAKE UP YOUR BLOODY FRAKKIN MINDS!

[Red Devil]

PF, all he said was that they had a chance to work on the private beta team in the past and blew it.  That's not an insult or personal attack and is not a  reason to be upset.

This is how things escalate and get ugly.

If you would like to help by giving constructive feedback on the physics and balance, it would be appreciated.

[GreenHeart]

If the Vets still want to help then please start helping by testing the physics\balance tweaks & helping to create a vet recycler variant that is extremly close to the 1.2 physics\balance.  Now is not the time to yell & scream about the physics however now is the time start helping by being constructive with providing some feedback on the preliminary physics\balance tweaks.

[Dirty Rooster]

There ARE vets in the 1.3 beta team.

And yet 1.3pb2 was released 'broken'

Testing was never allowed to produce
results which helped online strat performance.

[Spawn]

There is no right answer to any of the questions, but each side is demanding that their's is right with no exceptions.

As for vets on the 1.3 team, there is me, spAce, APC (not a classic vet but something) and possibly scout if he can be summoned.  That's it, more or less no true vet influence, not that any would really be taken, too much was said.  All the regulars here hate any vets, no matter how levelheaded or what is trying to be accomplished, and all the new players that join this board and the 1.3 community latch on and attack anyone with differing ideas without reason or ability.  I feel unwelcome here regularly, like everyone hates me for trying to help, not by everyone but by certain people completely.  I think the only reason I got on the 1.3 team is to help test DC, though I hope more good has occurred from me being here than just that.  The vets hate 1.3 because GSH has developed a hate towards all of them by the actions of certain assholes, and the vets who tried to help but were feircely attacked simply because they defended their friends, even if the friends were wrong.  Some have oftered to help again, GSH has refused such ofters, it is fully his right to, but it would be better for all to leave their pride and what has happened in the past behind, even if they should not have to.

It would be nice, but will never happen, the only reason it would happen is if everyone in this small community cared about each other, which obviously isn't the case.

[OvermindDL1]

Personally, the only seperation there *should* be in a community like this, are those you prefer ISDF, and those who prefer Scion.  The term "Vet" is a joke and only serves to further splinter the community.

[Spawn]

It can splinter a community, only when viewed as a poor thing like it is here, generally it refers to someone who has played enough to become good at a game or knows whatthey are doing, not like it has been made here.  Vet is only a "joke" to you becasue you made it that way.

[APCs r evil]

APC (not a classic vet but something)

I think that is the only reason why I don't feel unwelcome here as well.