Bz Servers - redux

[OvermindDL1]

Okay, please try to keep the name calling and other such non-technical things out of here, I want to discuss something that is actually related to BZ1 Servers.

You all do know that it would not be too hard to create a protection system for BZ1.  Most likely a stand-alone program that would connect to a specially modified ANet server, download the latest protection information, launch BZ1, and start hooking memory.  From what I gather, most of the 'hacks' are altered files (object definition files, models, whatever), that could fixed by hooking the system loaded file open function and verifying the file information between the clients (basically set it so whatever the host is running, everyone is running).  It would probably take me about a full day to get a rudimentary, but file protecting system (would not touch any clients files, would just transfer the hash information from the server in a few formats to the clients, which the hooked file open function would compare to make sure the loaded files are correct.  Etc... and so forth.  Basically, as long as anything wrong is done to the game, and the maker of this app was kept up-to-date with the information about the cracks, the system could be kept up-to-date, whether watching memory locations for incorrect changes, keeping files in synced, etc... and if any such checks fail it kills the game (Hmm, sounds like PunkBuster...).  If someone is not running the protection program then they cannot join any server that would be running the program

Although, did not BzE fix most of the issues anyway?  Why do people not just use that?
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[Nielk1]

BzE faked a fix by encrypting the files in the ZFS (BZ1's Pack File) so you can't just get them back out and edit them. At least, that is my understanding.

Sounds like a nice idea OM.

[Bort]

Yes. That's a great idea, Overmind. And yeah, Nielk1, from my understanding there is a system like this in place in BzE.
I believe the encryption is so the files that are compressed in zfs's can't be collected. I'm not exactly sure that that is the security that ensures all players have the same files and no one is hacked though. I think that was a security measure he made so nobody can extract the bze zfs files and use them in 1.4.

Dx would be able to tell us how it works and which is which.

[Avatar]

My limited understanding of the opposition to BZE is that it changed other things as well as adding the new features.  The BZ1 purists want a protection system added to the original game with no other changes.  I understand this as I've run into the same attitude while developing BZC for BZ2.  The main opposition is that the new engine changes things, and the opposition can't get past that to see the benefits.

I also understand creative control, not wanting to split the already tiny community, and all the other reasons people make changes to their works despite opposition.  Really, I do...

So, for the purists, adding anti-cheats that are independent of the engine itself would be a very good thing if it can be done.  Otherwise my thoughts are that since Dx is the only one with the source it's up to him what he releases, and everyone else can simply play it or not.  That's basically the same attitude I take towards the whole 1.2/1.3 BZ2 conflict also...

-Av- 

[Avatar]

Amazingly similar to the whole 1.2/1.3 fighting in BZ2-land. 

I guess it's part of human nature or it wouldn't keep coming up in gaming, as I watched a lot of the same thing in the Tribes/Tribes2 universe when T2 turned out a lot different than Tribes.  The louder voices won that one and T2 was patched into a prettier Tribes right down to the exploits.

As I've stated, there's no resolution.  Nobody can 'win'.  If someone like OM can create a protection system independent of the game so that everyone has a hack free choice it'd be an awesome thing.  Then, anyone complaining would be admitting they can't play without the hacks.

Am I right in my understanding of what OM's saying?  He can make the ANet server side of things hack free?

-Av-

[Bort]

If someone like OM can create a protection system independent of the game so that everyone has a hack free choice it'd be an awesome thing. 

This already exists, in a way; Firewalls. Ban all of the known, admitted, and confessed hackers.
It also *almost* exists in BzE because IP's are posted for everyone as soon as someone enters the lobby.
BzE is really the answer. Dx did a great job with it creating a stable version of the game that's very securely hacker free.
I'm not sure because I've never looked at the anet code. If there is such a feature it would be as easy as turning it on and making it active. Genx has found things like login capabilities so it just might already be there. If it isn't already there...it's going to be quite a task to pull off. I'm not sure it's worth spending all that time to do to an 11 year old game when someone like Dx has already spent almost 10 of those 11 years creating BzE. BzE is a resolution to avoiding the boneheads. Like the quote below from you, Avatar, the people that can't play without their cheats, tweaks, and hacks won't play BzE.

The pathetic part about players like that is that even with their hacked advantages....they still suck and get beat up pretty bad. And that's why they're so angry.

Then, anyone complaining would be admitting they can't play without the hacks.

Exactly! That is exactly why the people plotting to stop and destroy BzE are doing it. It is also why you never find them playing BzE.

[OvermindDL1]

I am more referring to a watchdog process like punkbuster (gull, hate referring to that piece of crap), just watch the game in detail.

I would not have any free time for anything for at least 2 months.  Keep talking about it, if you can get me a list of known hacks and how they are done in detail I might have time to work on it then.
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[Avatar]

Such things can NOT be posted on...  anything along the lines of detailed hack info must be emailed or PM'd directly to OM.

Capiche?

-Av-

[Spawn]

Amazingly similar to the whole 1.2/1.3 fighting in BZ2-land. 

The key difference is the bz2 community actually solved this on their own.  1.3 and 1.2 mostly went their separate ways.  Conflicts now are caused by players crossing over or new introductions trying to resolve dead problems.

Would you be willing to make such a program for 1.2 OM, or will you stand on the side as you were asked to with the chat av?

[OvermindDL1]

I do know 1.2 a great deal more (not the game, I have done a great deal of machine code diving in BZ2's executable), but things like flying (which can be watched) would be questionable, it is an actual 'bug' that needs to be fixed, but many rely on that bug.  Personally, hacks for both need to be stopped, just a measure of time taken to fix.  As for BS-er, he has not wanted any help with the coding, he does that well enough, he wants more good modelers and such.  Raknet I have given code for, my code is being used by many now, although there is still much more I could make for it.  Either way, this is all a moot point for now, unless someone else is skilled enough for this right now, I will have no time for at least 2 more months.
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[Bort]

I am more referring to a watchdog process like punkbuster (gull, hate referring to that piece of crap), just watch the game in detail.

ewwwww!!!! Punkbuster is, yes, just about the only system like that. But it never, ever, works. When it does work it's only for a matter of an hour or two if it's not as little as a few minutes until it's update is defeated. It's also known to crash systems and cause all kinds of errors with other games that don't use it. Yuck! I vote no to that. LOL

Something like VAC security (Steam's Anti-Cheat system) would be a much better idea I'd think. That, also, can be beaten though. They have improved it a lot and there is now a way to choose whether you're playing hackers or secured players but I'm sure that's not 100% fool proof either.
I wonder what it would take and if it would be possible to release BzE through Steam?

The most fool proof way to do it is pretty much what Dx has done with BzE which was partially already there. Encrypted and compressed files and checks on those files to ensure each player has the same exact file(s).

No matter what security system is used, be it games or windows, some lamer somewhere will find their way around it.

[OvermindDL1]

They can all be beaten, and the reason Punkbuster is so ineffectual is because there are always people updating the hacks, whereas the BZ community does not have that form of resource.  VAC requires code inside the program, this is not an option here.  Regardless of what is chosen, it needs to be kept updated and changed often.
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[Bort]

They can all be beaten, and the reason Punkbuster is so ineffectual is because there are always people updating the hacks, whereas the BZ community does not have that form of resource.  VAC requires code inside the program, this is not an option here.  Regardless of what is chosen, it needs to be kept updated and changed often.
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The security that's in BzE works great. And...hehe...what Dx said, above. Aside from the FPS stuff. I'll never agree with anyone that says FPS is a shared setting...and I don't want to start that argument again it's been argued and debated about thousands of times.

[Nielk1]

I tried cracking it for fun, was getting somewhere before what I was using suddenly stopped working midway though all the files. (If I am thinking right this crc is the encryption on all the files.)

I got tired of it. I just wanted to load up some VDF/SDF files to look at but meh, no need . (If anything the only person I would tell what I did would be Dx.)

[Nielk1]

Ah k