@ GSH & KEN

[MowerMan]

And the point would be AV?  

The point was brought up about the "designer's vision" and I was debunking it.  Sad I have to explain that to you AV.

They did advocate human piloted Mortarbikes however...

[wug]

I think we'd have to go all the way back to the original Battlezone to get the "design vision".  The arcade version (from what I can recollect), and subsequent clones from the Apple II onwards was a *tank* game.  Tanks, by definition are _ground_ vehicles; "flying tanks" are called bombers.

Okay, let's shift gears for a moment and say that BZ II tanks can and should fly.  You know, that's fine in DM... in fact, it's probably preferable in DM (and even enhanced).  But in MPI or Strat, flying is not good for gameplay.

Many games have a "realistic" vs. "arcade" driving mode, and I think that would solve a lot of problems (as others have mentioned before).  But I don't think it'd ever make it into the code. :s

[BZZERKER]

Well, this will be my 1 and only post in this topic. I find it funny how supposedly "mature" adults and adolescents refuse to accept something that had been "written in stone" from the very beginning of this patch. Below is a copy\paste of yet another hover whiner from TV's board that I responded to. Funny how they're mostly from the same clan.

'Anything that unbalances the game should be changed!
Whether it's skill, or abuses! Be gone with people who have trained themsleves
for many years, trying to become good! I play 1 week and I want to beat them!
I only play once a week but I need to kill those who play each day!
Kill them so called vets, who needs them?'



Getting any idea what I mean, and who I'm imitating?

(not much to do with this discuss, just count it as a lil spam post, sry

Pyro, I'm hoping your referring to the changes to the "agility" of the ships when you say "skill". If your referring to "nose down hover" then I think you and every one else that thinks like that need to redifine your definition of skill. YES, I can hover. NO, I don't think it's fun. If fact, to me, it became boring and quite droll after a very short period. Now, like I said before, if it's the "agility" you refer to, I recently posted a PM to someone about this. Here is that part of that PM.

AHHhhh physics. The thing with GSH is....he NEVER mentioned anything about slowing the ships down in any direction. All he said was infinite flying (nose down hovering) "was a bug". Yes it's regrettable that the ships did slow down a bit but as wardog has stated. "it was considered to be part of the balance issue which was going to be part of the public's job". I personally disagree with this thinking.

To back this statement up, I DARE ANYBODY, go through the changelog.txt and find where Ken purposely changed the "AGILITY" to DOWNGRADE it. I tried with notepad using the find function using the words "hover", agility", and "maneuver". Plain and simple, the "agility" got broken and fixing it got put off or nobody really noticed.

btw,THANK YOU Nathan & Ken

[MowerMan]

Another anti-flying nazi flinging insults...

[AcneVulgaris]

The point was brought up about the "designer's vision" and I was debunking it.  
.

By acknowledging the main point?

No the designers did not advocate flying

You can wrap as much bread around it as you want, but it's still a hoot sandwitch.

[MowerMan]

I can see you an expert at missing the point, and then not making any point to clarify or back up your position, AV.

It is your opinion that it is a "hoot sandwich".    As we all know opinions are like assholes...  Everybody's got one, and they all stink!

[Avatar]

Calm it down folks...

Mower, quit picking on these guys, they know not what they do...



-Av-

[MowerMan]

Well AV, I was not debating the merits of flying or not flying.  Mostly the semantics, and this weird concept of the "designer's vision".

[technoid]

As we all know opinions are like assholes...  Everybody's got one, and they all stink!

That phrase is the only good thing I got out of this debate.  Gonna have to use that sometime in a board meeting.  

[MowerMan]

I'm not really debating Techie...  Just goofing around...  (he he he)

Had to scrape some dinosaur hoot off that one TechieDude...  It's an oldie!!!

[technoid]

Well, just as long as you and Acne shake hands in the end.  And I don't mean "end" as in "behind", hehe.  It's bound to stir up some Klingons orbiting Uranus.

[Avatar]

I know for a fact that Mower has a whole COLLECTION of chains he's jerked off of people...  he takes 'em out on Sundays and shines them...



I think serious discussions of flying (whatever) are necessary, but keep it as non-personal as you can.  There's good and bad on both sides and discussing it like adults is a good thing.  If it turns into Klingon-slinging the thread'll have to be put out of it's mysery.

And don't argue physics with Mower...  he's so old I think he and GOD actually worked out the whole physics thing...  hehe

-Av-
(that's big-A little-v, not AV as in big-A, big-V AcneVulgaris)

[AcneVulgaris]

Mostly the semantics, and this weird concept of the "designer's vision".

By 'designers vision'  I mean the mental picture the guys had when they were dreaming up the game.  Do you have a more pedestrian term for that concept you'd prefer to use?  "Game-builder-guy's big idea", perhaps?  

Well AV, I was not debating the merits of flying or not flying.

Neither was I.  My point was that the decision Ken and Nathan made was in line with was originally intended for the game.  

It looks like we agree on that.

The purpose of making that point was to make people understand why the pro/anti hover issue was decided the way it was, and that further histronics are just a pointless way of annoying the hell out of the guys that worked so hard on that patch.

[MowerMan]

I don't have to shake hands with AV, he knows he's my bud.  So does Av. (AV and Av)

AV and I have done this so many times (not limited to flying) that I would think everyone who has been around for a while would know how we poke at each other.  I've never taken it personally, and I don't think he has either.  It's part of the "game"  (he he he).

[BZ FeebleEffort]

I won't get into the pros and cons of the whole foolishness about "Fixing" physics..But I will say this, the end result for me is UN-playable warp.

1.3 is a FUN MPI game I can play with my 10 year old son, but MP against real players?..is a unplayable warp fest.   THAT warp is the real killer for 1.3(aside from 50 other little issues I have with it) But basically The warp is a direct result of the physics change and the whole "Tho shalt not hover" Mania has resulted in this particular phyics package, and that "package" for me is virtually unplayable.