1.3 physics

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Ok, weve got the problem, and we are not talking about 'flying'...we are talking specifically about the dynamics of combat and how running away was just as important as fighting.

Infact, if i remember a poll only about 26% of the people on the poll voted 'agressive'. The rest were something else, and that was inculded 'defencive'...of which i am proudly apart off....

not being able to run away totally unblaences the combat in favour to the agressive, ...combats the wrong word.

it unbalences the dynamics of the scout-scout fighting (inculding running away etc etc)

I think if the units could 'accelorate' to a higher top speed...but it got harder andharder to get to that top speed that would be great.

The average speed would be the same as it is now if such a thing was impimented, but if you started a full burn 5 seconds before the opponent, even if he was infront of you when he started enaging you, you would still increase the distance between eachother.

It also works in reverse, if you were to set up a trap, let say using a scav as bait, you would gain speed as you hurtled towards the scavenger, and the opponent attacking would not see you comming till it was too late.

its also more realistic , wind speed give more drag the faster you go but its not a 'straight line' on the chart, it would build up more and more (until you hit sound barrier, but lets not impliment that in-game ey?)

Also, we would only need to impliement this on the types of units, all the rest need not have their odf's touched....they would be

a) scouts/drones (Xypoi/locusts) (the ones where this is noticed the most)
b) missile scout / Sentry class (and Zues mc's)
c) Sabers/Warriors (and Xares)

[NukeDaddy]

While I hate it when people run from a fight (especially from me ), maybe something like limited afterburners could be implemented.  Skillful, yet conservative use of those could help compensate for the "unbalance."

[DarkFox]

I compiled a list of comparitive speeds between versions, comparing forward thrust, nose-downing, strafe+forward, and strafee+nose downing, timing how long it took them to run a 2000m race. The results showed that in 1.3 nose-down is just as fast as always, straight forward is just as fast as always, but strafe+forward or strafe+forward+nosedown were not...

Adding strafe made *no* difference to speed in 1.3, hence the reason the scouts seemed slower.

Havnig said that, my test was done a few months ago in beta, and there's a chance things have changed since then. We'll all miss the chasing someone by looking diaganolly at them and strafe+forwarding just right to keep up with them. It's kinda gone now, but people who run are still faster than those chasing, it's just more about nost-down now.
And just remember - start running when you're a little bit healthier. So far I've been fine running away in 1.3, but I've not been in that many games with lots of vet players in them. Too many vets still playing 1.2, probably.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

nice idea nuke, but i dont think we need it...


the running is perfact in 1.2... a bit to easy to learn to run but thats what some people wants anyway - "not to die"

the running add another affect.. in importent games i feel some type of an andrelin rush when i start running on with like 5 hull left... i love the feeling

and i almost never use strafe forward nose down.. i always do forward and nosedown only...

and belive me - there is no difrence if u know to do it right...

also, im running faster then some others and i manage to catch ppl better then others... and i dont do it with strafe
the speed is just decressed in 1.3...


i would like to know who was the one that doing the "race" and how accurate are your results? and the feeling is just difrent... it might the game feeling itself.. or the engine slower - i realy dont know but bottom line is

1.3 scouts are slower runners then 1.2 runners


it takes alot of skills catching people... and some people have been playing like that for more then 4 years

i feel that 1.3 takes all the action skills away... - ok so its stratergy BUT a big part of it is action
what are thugs job? they are the action part - they need something to do rather then get few ai units from the cmdr - heck - will be better for them to play other pure stratergy game with teams on...

bz2 needs the action, taking away the speed and the races (running and chasing) is just killing another part of the action in my eyes...

1.3 slower the action in many ways - this is just anotehr one of them

[Speedy]

I find that thugs have exactly the same role they had in 1.2.

[aougli]

Yup, chain scouts still often win a game, except it isn't as much fun dog fighting now.  

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

hard for me to tell.. all the games i was in i get newbs that i better as well keep the AI units to myself and do everything alone as if its 1v1.. and not much problem cause not much threat from the other team... just wasting 5000 scrap a game on their ships.. but its cool when u have 4 upgs and the enemy doesnt even know how to upg 1 pool...

[aougli]

but its cool when u have 4 upgs and the enemy doesnt even know how to upg 1 pool...

hmm, maybe a little boring?

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

Indeed... but u want me to play 1.3 dont you?

ive said many times 1.3 is more boring for me but i still play it from time to time to see maybe ill have a fun game someday or just get used to some stuff and start to like it like DF [at least from what i heard happend]

[DarkFox]

I was the one doing the tests. I was timing the 2000m run and writing it down. It took 1.3 scouts *exactly* the same amount of time to travel 2000m while going straight forward, and while using nose-down, as it did in 1.2.
I was doing these tests to try to prove how much slower 1.3 scouts were than 1.2 scouts, and the results showed that they're exactly the same speed. The only difference was that strafe did not add to your velocity, which does, I might add, make a considerable difference.

[wug]

It's kinda funny... now that running away doesn't work, I've resorted to using the method of escape back from playing old Battlezone clones - going in reverse.

By going in reverse, it buys you a little extra time to dodge.  It also adds to your weapons effective distance (i.e. enemy moves into your shots), while decreases the enemy's as you move away.

Of course, it really only works against the AI, and your vehicle has to have quite a bit of armor and room to back-peddle to attempt it.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

wug, u obvisuoly dont play with vets... they will just ram you - they dont care losing 10 hp more - ull die so fast by going in reverse

[Avatar]

It's kinda funny... now that running away doesn't work, I've resorted to using the method of escape back from playing old Battlezone clones - going in reverse.

By going in reverse, it buys you a little extra time to dodge.  It also adds to your weapons effective distance (i.e. enemy moves into your shots), while decreases the enemy's as you move away.

Of course, it really only works against the AI, and your vehicle has to have quite a bit of armor and room to back-peddle to attempt it.

In BZ1 most 'vets' had a mouse button or keypress bound to shift-F3, and had set up that view for an over-the-shoulder look.  That way you could 'check the rear view mirror' in the blink of an eye when running.

The other running away technique is to have 3D sound going and a four-speaker setup around you.  You can hear the shots/rockets coming up one side or the other allowing you to dodge them.

Then there's Mower's method, involving some sort of 'beer mine' dropped right in front of a pursuing enemy....  

-Av-

[Phaser]

I been abble to run away from ennemy more then i thought i would untill now. So i guess i was wrong about that, maybe it was just luck or warp but i did get away almost every time i tried. As im not someone who will chase an ennemy, always prefer to keep bullets for pool and scavs, i havent intensively tested that.

Im definatly getting the hang of this scout, its just so powerfull once again! Woot! Woot!

[wug]

Yeah, like I said, going in reverse only works against the AI.  Against human opponents, I really dunno what to do in 1.3 (help!).  But it's been 3 or 4 years since I've touched BZ II, so I'm still on training wheels.

And dodging while running away is pretty much impossible against machinegun weapons now.  3D sound only makes getting blown up sound cooler.

"Beer mines?"  Isn't that a LAN-only option?