(Medium suggestion) Mag

[Tempest Storm]

Actually, these are the damage values:

Arc Cannon:

damageValue(N) = 100
damageValue(L) = 100
damageValue(H) = 75

damageValue(S) = 75
damageValue(D) = 100
damageValue(A) = 50

Sonic Blast:

damageValue(N) = 400 // none
damageValue(L) = 270 // light
damageValue(H) = 100 // heavy

damageValue(S) = 270 // standard
damageValue(D) = 400 // deflection
damageValue(A) = 170 // absorbtion

Those are stock BZ2 values though. Not sure about how Rev. C/D may handle it.

[DarkFox]

It's better to judge things on damage/second actually, since this takes firerate into consideration, and the fact that arc cannon fires 6 times per button press.

It works out that sonic cannon does a *LOT* more damage/second against the *light* armour of a Xares than arc cannon. The main point isn't the damage though, it's the fact that the sonic blast pushes enemy projectives around as it flies through the air. Using sonic, you find that the fireballgun almost never hits home.
Furthermore, you need to realise that the fireballgun is a kinetic weapon, not energy. Using absorbtion shield against fireballgun is like having *zero* armour.
Next time you fight hadeans while you're scions, hit their base non-stop, take out spikes without morphing, and tech up to blink asap.
Use deflection shields and give one or maybe 2 of your thugs sonic cannons; the fireballgun will seem like some kind of joke. The hadean commander will either react by using dragonblast (dumb move), or using a zeus worm or two (good move). If he does use the zeus worm, you'll have a fight on your hands, but it's nothing you can't handle with blink.

In short, I think you're playing against hadeans as though they're ISDF, and that's the reason you're losing.

~DF
ps. I've seen so many vets judging hadeans as if they're ISDF. I remember the bawling over fireballgun and dragonblast in the past(some of which, admittedly, I was part of). People were arguing that fireballgun was the best cannon in the game... This is probably true, but the true comparison to be made is fireballgun+shell vs blast+chain+mortar. The blast/chain/mortar setup comes out tops in almost all categories, and is only slightly lower in ammo capacity.
This is a similar issue... People judging hadeans without really understanding them. When you understand them, they're a bit weaker than ISDF and Scions IMO, even in rev.C where they were boosted so much. In short, when you udnerstand them, the Xares is quite naff, certainly not their strength. The hadean strength lies in the zeus worm, the atlas, and the hedoux FBS.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

FB looks like energy weapon.. im a hadean newb.. but i did whats logical.. and im used to 1.2 dont forget...

i never knew sonic is good on heavy armor... it seems real weird... cause arc does more dmg to tanks then sonic

and i was running around with absro...

[DarkFox]

i never knew sonic is good on heavy armor... it seems real weird... cause arc does more dmg to tanks then sonic

I already said, tanks have *light* armour. Buildings, assault tanks etc have heavy armour.
Sonic does *miles* more damage to light armour than arc does, which includes tanks, it's just harder to hit with, and doesn't have that evil 'knock around' effect that arc has.

As for FB being an energy weapon - I believe the heat burn that comes from the shot passing by is energy, but the big heavy center of the shot is certainly kinetic. Probably made of stone, even. Heh.

re: You being a Hadean Noob - you play FE pretty well for a self proclaimed hadean noob.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

i thought the light armor was a joke cause blast seems to does real less dmg then to isdf tanks / scouts

that meanst they just got a HUGE healthbar?
see? im a hadean n00b
i know about guns abit... slicer, shell gun burst and praticle gun... i dont know the range.. i know slicer is good for scotus - close to isdf laser, shell is like chains and burst is like pummel - but seems stronger

dont know range of anything, dont know how many cannons, dont realy remmeber the names... what was it procreator and hmm damn forgot the fac name

as a vet i tihnk u can adujst to anything, even a new race - the porblem is you dont learn counters, tactics , weak & strong points in 1 day.. all this stuff u ussaly learn from some1 / alot of testing with and playing vs and watching what others do

[DarkFox]

Well, the Xares tank does have *slightly* more health than a sabre, but not much.

re: Hadean guns. The slicer is kinda in between a chaingun and a laser for it's ability to kill scouts and hit pools. Likewise, the burstgun is kinda in between a chaingun and a pummel gun.
Slicer isn't a patch on laser for killing scouts, burst gun isn't a patch on pummel for hitting buildings, but slicer is better than laser for hitting buildings, and burst is better than pummel for dogfighting.
Shellgun is ok for scouts and pools, but not great. It's excellent for killing light armour (such as sabre/warrior/xares), but it's *very* good for kiling tanks.

As for the cannons - Slag cannon is a long range SP stabber, combat laser and dragon blast are rubbish, and fireballgun is badass, as you well know.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

pummel - burst - chain - slicer - laser

dont know where to put in shell gun though
i think it was you posted this...

u need like 8 blast shots to kill xares while u need 5/6 (5 and a bit) shots to kill isdf tank

that doesnt look like *slightly* more its in the game terms errr 600 health more?

[DarkFox]

http://www.centralimmune.fsnet.co.uk/uscm/games/bz2/vehicles%20revc.html

300 more health.
7 blasts to kill a sabre, 8 to kill a xares.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

was looking for something like that..
ty

[APCs r evil]

With that in mind, tag cannon has a use (outranging turrets before you get shads, and weapon-cycling with laser to increase pool suppression ability).

As for scions - the lancer just doesn't cut it against anything. Even against packs of AI mortar bikes, there are better scion choices than a lancer (such as titans, arc stream warriors, or even sonic scouts).

Tag cannon is also useful for attacking VIR'd tanks and scouts with AI rckt tanks and avengers.

I had always found the lancer useful for long range turret and mortar bike killing but i do realize that other scion ships can do the same thing just as easily but also closer to the enemy like say in the range of a Gun Tower or Spire. At least IMHO

[DarkFox]

Lancers cannot outrange gunspires. Their have the same range as guntowers when using stingers, less range than gunspires, but you'll find that stingers do *half* as much damage as a *minigun* against the heavy armour of a guntower. You'll literally be there for about 2 minutes firing constantly before you take a guntower down with stingers.

They're ok against turrets, yes, but not as quick for killing them as a sonic scout, and the lancer is far slower than a sonic scout... And far worse at dogfighting... Well... Lancers are just naff.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

in 1.3 they are fairly good as combat escorts (of course not against something with VIR....damn themal / visual missile bug)

ANYWAY back on topic!

Is making combat MAG the same as the BZI mag (although not as powerful) and the Assault Mag similiar to the 'current' shot-gun style combat mag...but more powerful to compensate.


I think that change would mean Assault vechiles have a reason to use mag (its a shorter range but more powerful than blast)

and combat vechiles would have a reason to use it (for the same reasons it was used in bzi).

ATM Blast is more preferable in both instances. the Current mag only has 'one' neich which is a 3-4 player timed with voice chat rec hit. A neich that 'would not' be affected sevarly by the change i recommend.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

i love the current assult mag, and i use it in FE, on 1.2 its useless because ur better off with blast / mdm assult tank rather then mag / mdm ass tank

why? cause 1 mag isnt that usefull...

mag on maulers (lol) is DAMN great and same as on FE walker...

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

this is 1.3 not FE firstly

secondly, I have yet to see a MAG being used in-strat game EVER (excluding tests where we said 'lets try out the mag!' and such).

The BZI mag was the 'ultimate' weapon.

Lets return some of that BZI goodness (you know its good) and make blast/mag equal...whilst not changing blast and not making MAG fill the same neich as blast.

I think my suggestion would help do this.

[Spawn]

this would require mag to be the oppsite of blast, hard to hit with, good against buildings and heavy armor, probablly good with light armor and no armor killing, but moves low so light ships can dodge...now, what does this sound like?  And could it be that mag isnt used because of huge ammo cost and inability to dogfight with?  Not because it isnt good?  Maybe increacing the range so you dont need to be on top of something to hit it...