(Major bug) ISDF base build in AIP can fail

[wug]

I'm been fiddling with the MPI AIPs for a little while now, and in testing, there seems to be a major problem with the basebuildminimum for two buildings:
- Training center
- Tech center

Depending on the build order and the map, either building may fail to build.  The constructor goes through the motions (with sound fx), but nothing materializes (not even the wireframe).

My guess is there is a bug with the available space check, since both of those buildings are an odd shape (2x1 grids).  Donextonfail does not work to bypass this condition, so there's no easy way to work around this problem.

I've got a test AIP (nothing but scrap collecting and base building) and AIP log files.  GreenHeart suggested I replace the IA AIP and make a save file to show this... is the log file enough?

So, am I on glue, or is this a real bug?

[Spawn]

im not sure about this, but could it be that since the comp always makes buildings facing south (thats why the comp's base it at the north) the buildings are build one way, but the comp only looks for two adjacent squares, so half the time the comp finds two adjacent build squares, but cant make because they arent in the right orientation?  Im not sure, but would it be possible to give the comp a modifyed recycler that has a comstructor which builds the two buildings at once, but then a dll splits them?  So they would originally be a square, but then be split into two parts?  Dont know how that would work though... :s

[OvermindDL1]

Make sure the pathpoints for it are set correctly and their should be no problems...

[BZZERKER]

I ran into this problem a while back on IA: Chill when 1.3 was still in private beta. I have since "played" with the map and have gotten the AI to properly build everything without problems but it seems I've created a couple more problems that still need some minor tweaking. You might want to try moving the Recy "spawn point" a little at a time. Whatever you do, make sure the Recy is facing the same direction as when you started when your done.

[wug]

Ah... I'm not modding maps or anything... I've been working on improving the stock 1.3 AIP and that's it.  The Scion side works great, but the ISDF side is giving me ulcers.

The AI looks to be making some miscalculations for the 2x1 size buildings (maybe due to orientation?).  There's no problem with the bigger 2x2 buildings - factory, service bay and bomber bay, so it's a pretty specific bug.

I want to make a whole set of alternate AIPs, but I gotta get this issue resolved.  If "donextonfail" worked properly in this case, it would be enough to workaround this bug (by re-ordering the build on the fly until everything fit).

[BZZERKER]

Is this on every MPI map or just the ones where the Recy is a little cramped for space? I've noticed a tendency for the AI to have a problem building the training center when the Recy had little room to work with on the left side (looking at upgrade console from insinde Recy). The only exception I've seen is on IA: Iceberg. Not really sure whats going on with that map as it has the least amount of room around the Recy than any other stock map.

[wug]

Like I said, it depends on the map and the build order.  It's pretty simple to test... make the AIP set with a build order like:

ibpgen
ibfact
ibcbun
ibarmo
ibpgen
ibsbay
ibtrain
ibtcen
ibpgen
ibbomb

Now this order will work on MP Dunes, but fails on Chill and HiLo.  I've tried literally dozens of build orders, and by fixing it on one map, another would fail.  Rinse and repeat.  If it fails, it's always on either ibtrain or ibtcen.

I've had ibbomb fail to build on cramped maps, but if will obey the "donextonfail" order, nor does the constructor actually try to build the ibbomb in those cases.  So, I'm pretty sure the bug specifically affects training and tech centers.

Anyway, this seriously limits the AI's ISDF strategies, since losing training and tech center means no bomber bay, apc or walker.

[Avatar]

How about we cut to the heart of the problem and give the Tech/Training square aprons?

-Av-

[Spawn]

heh, just rotate the xis 90 degrees and were set
i wonder what would be supporting them then...guess thet connection pad is pretty strong...

[BZZERKER]

Now this order will work on MP Dunes, but fails on Chill and HiLo.  I've tried literally dozens of build orders, and by fixing it on one map, another would fail.  Rinse and repeat.  If it fails, it's always on either ibtrain or ibtcen.

Not sure why it would do that at all :s .

Av, Would that take care of the problem on a cramped map like Chill? I'm not so sure it would because when I caught the cons trying to build the TC, it was try to build it in a really odd location (all or partly on the Recy).

[Angstromicus]

I've read few posts here but I have a hunch of why it may fail to build.

The computer builds the building in a set direction, and the constructor tries to build the building, but it doesn't build, because the structure overlaps another owns terrain building / rugged terrain. I've tried this bug in old 1.1 games, where I would select any building, and make the constructor build, but I'd move the build rectile so fast that it goes over another buiding/rugged terrain/non-adjacent terrain, and I'd lose the scrap, and the constructor would go through full animation, but nothing materialized.

I suggest having something in the AIP so that you can configure where the AI builds, and/or what way the building is flipped.

[Fishbone]

There is already a buildlocation command in the aips. map makers have to make sure their maps work with the corresponding aips and vice versa.
Its just a question of testing things out and setting the path points right.

[Axx0]

I've got a rather cheesy solution to this problem. If you can't make the AI place nonsquare objects, don't have any nonsquare objects. Untill the AI can place them, just make them square.

[Angelwing]

I'd move the build rectile so fast that it goes over another buiding/rugged terrain/non-adjacent terrain, and I'd lose the scrap, and the constructor would go through full animation, but nothing materialized.

I wonder if that bug is present in 1.3, it could be annoying as hell in 1.2...
Then there's the case where you accidently deploy the rec ontop of the basepool...

[Avatar]

The Recy deploying issue is being addressed in 1.3.

The 1x2 buildings being a problem for the AI has been brought up many times but a decent solution hasn't been forthcoming.  The way I see it the easiest thing to do is:

1. Expand the apron from 1x2 to 2x2 either by moving the buildings into the middle of a square apron OR doubling the buildings OR stretching them into wider buildings.

2. Cut them down into 1x1.

#1 may be an issue on some of the more cramped maps, while #2 may be disrespectful of the original designer.  Personally I'd like to see them expanded into 2x2 square buildings and the more cramped maps expanded a bit for more elbow room if necessary.

Most of the Scion buildings are 2x2 so it's not an issue for them.

-Av-