Balance - since I missed the last topic

[Red Devil]

 I was just in a session and kept getting killed even though I was using chain, so I looked at the ODF.  Seemed a little weak to me, so I upped the  damage of it for all armor by 25%.  Seems about right now.

[APCs r evil]

  YOu...! what!?

[Red Devil]

Oh man, I got you so good...

[Angelwing]

now THAT was scary

[Spawn]

*hits red with 2*4 with a few nails in it*

[Red Devil]

hehehe 

Illustrates a point though, doesn't it?  What seems good to one may not (and most likely doesn't) seem good to another.  And therein lies the rub in balancing and why it is so important for as many of us as possible to provide respectful and rational input so we come up with a product that is as balanced as much as it can be balanced.  And well, of course, then again there's evil Natty. 

[APCs r evil]

Didn't we already know that?

[Red Devil]

 Some, not all.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

What seems good to one may not (and most likely doesn't) seem good to another.

which means one of them has no idea what he's talking about
or both of them

[Avatar]

What seems good to one may not (and most likely doesn't) seem good to another.

which means one of them has no idea what he's talking about
or both of them

Er...

No.

I used to be owned regularly by "Lt. Wolverine", who favored a Bobcat and Mag.Ã,  He's the only player I've ever seen that could nail you mid air with a fully charged mag.Ã,  Every other Mag user favored dual mag 'bump and run' attacks, usually using a Stealth BDog Grizzly.Ã,  The cries of Mag being unbalanced were everywhere, yet here was a player using it effectively via skill rather than cheap tricks.

What works for one person doesn't always work for another.Ã,  Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, tricks and techniques, that work for them but not for others for whatever reason.Ã,  Everyone is only an expert in how THEY play the game, using gameplay that often conflicts or doesn't work for someone else.  You have to look at both the numbers (weapons stats, speeds, armor, etc.) and the players and realize that the combinations of all are infinite.

That's the beauty of games like BZ, they can be totally different for everyone who plays them.

It's just like driving on the highway.Ã,  Everyone you pass is an 'old lady', while it's the 'maniacs' that go whizzing by you...Ã,  Ã, 

-Av-

[Red Devil]

 Very well put, Av.  And, as always, with a dash of humor thrown in for good measure.

Any one of you guys could own me in BZ and I would never call it cheating because I recognize and accept your superiority with tactics and strategy.  Okay, I may curse a bit, but you'd never hear them. 

Not all share that same attitude though.  Some do not like getting beat *at all* and, due to that, (and instead of learning from the experience) they will pull out the "you're a dirty cheater" card whenever their tactics and strategy do not work as well as others.

And it's in all games/situations too.  About a month or so ago, my entire squad was held down by a sniper in BF2.  No matter what we tried, he picked us off or got us one way or another every time (with a sniper rifle and a *pistol*).  I mean this guy was *good*.  Pissed us all off, but at the end, we all tipped our hat to the guy. [mumbling] the little prick...

So yeah, weapons don't always make the difference.  If I had SP/Laser and PF or DR or whoever had mini, they'd most likely still be able to take me.

Little old lady/maniac.  Ha!  Good one.

[Fried]

Me and aougli used to go head to head when testing REV.C for FE i would actually forsake using
my usual fighting styles and just slug it out, throwing a few variables in to allow for different fire
rates-leades etc and then also throw some counter units in the mix of varying weapon combinations.

It was a fairly damned acurate method of testing though all players have to be rational and "Not"
go down the "I can't handle dieing-Losing route" then follow it by a good old discussion in teamspeak.

Can't do it now though, He's been out of touch for a while and were starting to get a little concerned
in the clan.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

balance between weapons is like 2 people with coins

give one person 10 coins and the other 15 coins
just because the the person with the 10 coins managed to buy 3 cars and the person with the 15 coins managed to buy one car doesnt mean the one with the 10 coins got more advantge
just like if I'd take a chain scout and fight AI / a new player in a blast tank
I'd beat the tank, but that doesnt make a chain scout better than the tank does it?

however, if you take 2 people - who know where to look for a cheap & good car then you'll see the real lack of balance
the person with the 10 coins will get 3 cars and the person with the 15 coions will get 5 cars


balance is not about what fits you that might not fit others, either there is balance or there isnt
there *are* few ways of balancing stuff - but either there is balance or there isnt.

[Zanting]

I used to be owned regularly by "Lt. Wolverine", who favored a Bobcat and Mag.  He's the only player I've ever seen that could nail you mid air with a fully charged mag.  Every other Mag user favored dual mag 'bump and run' attacks, usually using a Stealth BDog Grizzly.  The cries of Mag being unbalanced were everywhere, yet here was a player using it effectively via skill rather than cheap tricks.

Just a quicky,

Most Stealth Tankers now in BZ1, and I think for the past few years, can easily takeout someone from 200m away, in the air, and in other combinations. Also there are Wolvie players who can easily rape a Stealth Tank w/ hornets/shads and the nav trick.

[Red Devil]

 Agreed.  That's why there's vet strats, as you all play at the same skill level (or close too it). If you all play at the same skill level, that eliminates that variable from the mix.  You play against me and the skill imbalance is obvious.

A good illustration of weapon imbalance is when Beavis drops into your base with Fountain.  No skill, but plenty of firepower=short lousy game.  And things that allow you to come and go like the wind with impunity.

Tech like that you should only acquire when you have earned it by acquiring/protecting resources which allows you to acquire technology which allows you to build up your forces.  So, I don't think it's so much that the weapons aren't balanced but that their acquisition is premature.

I think what does most people in is playing the other guy's game.  If you get sucked into his way of fighting, you'll lose every time.  if you engage a dogfighter and you're not, you're dead.

I wouldn't worry about Aougli.  I think I saw him in a bunker on Wake in BF2.