Balance - since I missed the last topic

[Dirty Rooster]

Red Devil, you seem to be ignoring the posts
which ask for long range for assault Blink.
That sounded harsh, sorry.
Long range would be similar to 1.2 standard Blink,
i.e. it teleports you to where your reticle is
pointing, including the other side of the map when
there is a wall. You can't see your target, but you
still blink there. This is a GOOD thing incase you
are unsure. This would enable you to blink to
pools, areas of combat, home to base, etc. This
is what I want, and I seem not to be alone.

So, let me put it this way ;
For Assault Blink I would like the maximum Range
to be not less than 600m, more like 800m

[Red Devil]

 Wasn't ignoring.  Just finished saying I was having a trouble with the visibility, so it was hard to adjust beyond that... Was asking for maps with more visibility too...  Using the math now.

Problem I was just talking about was the unlimited Blink.  With Blink before, you'd use up weapon ammo, so you were limited in your Blink capabilities until you got a pod, truck, or bay.

Doing this while waiting for ftp to be up.

[APCs r evil]

I don't see why Blink shouldn't use the weapon ammo. Just make the combat version use a  ton of ammo, and the assault version use very little.

[Red Devil]

Working pretty good now.  Assault Blink at ~900 meters so far with about a 30 second recharge, so it basically increases your drive speed by about 30%, not to mention getting away from danger.  Combat Blink same as before.

[Angelwing]

I'd like to see the combat blink have a quick recharge personally, maybe not instant but anything over 8 seconds seems a little too much. If it isn't going to be used for escape (the purpose of the assault version) then it'd need a quick recharge time else it's just a tiny hop which -may- give you a slight one-time advantage, but otherwise wouldn't do much. What I mean is so that it can be used offensively in dogfights - ie: repeatedly blink every few seconds so to disorientate the enemy and make them briefly lose your position, allowing you to hit them from the side or behind whilst they turn around, with the obvious penaulty being ammo consumption (which would NEED to be in effect in this case to stop it being overused)

[Red Devil]

Read what I said.  I said you could make multiple little jumps adding up to the max range and it's recharging all the time, albeit slowly.

[deadscion]

I'd like to see the combat blink have a quick recharge personally, maybe not instant but anything over 8 seconds seems a little too much. If it isn't going to be used for escape (the purpose of the assault version) then it'd need a quick recharge time else it's just a tiny hop which -may- give you a slight one-time advantage, but otherwise wouldn't do much. What I mean is so that it can be used offensively in dogfights - ie: repeatedly blink every few seconds so to disorientate the enemy and make them briefly lose your position, allowing you to hit them from the side or behind whilst they turn around, with the obvious penaulty being ammo consumption (which would NEED to be in effect in this case to stop it being overused)

A dogfight advantage is not balance.

[DarkFox]

Yes it is DS.

Please RD, I think we're losing the point a little here with the recharge rates...

Allow scions with blink to 'hit and run' enemy pools or bases, but don't allow them to instantly save their own lives in combat.

This can be done in 2 ways -
a: Combat blink should be SHORT range. I don't mean 100m, I mean something SMALL like 40m, put that right down to about 20m if it's going to be ready again in less than 5 seconds. This is enough to confuse the opponent in a dogfight, helping the scion player befuddle him or get some nice shots to hit side-profile, or assist an escape, but it's not enough to just instantaneously get out of range of his weapons. (Consider that most combat takes place at or near max weapon range).

b: Assault blink should not only be LONG in range (3000m), it should also recharge quickly, and probably eat ammo as well. Can't you make assault blink exactly like it is in 1.2?


See, having it take long to recharge would remove the ability to hit and run pools etc, so scions would just be at a massive strategic disadvantage due to their lack of mortars, with not enough advantage from their 'hit and run'.
If, on the other hand, it is quick to recharge (less than 15 seconds), then blinking to hit pools would become TOO powerful, since you wouldn't even need to recharge much ammo, a scion team could use strip the map of pools in no time, and ignore the dogfights altogether.
As such, an ammo cost is the best solution for assault blink.

[APCs r evil]

Can't you make assault blink exactly like it is in 1.2?

Easily.

I hate to draw attention from Blink but did you see my post regarding Splinter?

[deadscion]

You guys talk about how useful blink is to Scion race, but nobody is talking about what is useful to ISDF in dogfights to balance this out.

ISDF is just supposed to put up with your Blink without any sort of counter attack?

If you are going to talk about balance it means equal capability.

I guess I will just have to create a Recycler variant of my own with no Blink or MDM and be done with it.

There is no justifable way to give the dogfight advantage to one side and not the other.

[DarkFox]

DS,ss a brief summary - weapons ARE balanced in 1.2 when scions have blink. The dogfights ARE fair when there are evenly matched players using blast/chain against arc/gauss.
All this talk of blink you witness are ways of makking it LESS powerful, which isn't for the sake of dogfight balance, it's so that scions can't just give up the 50% of the time they lose.

As for MDM - this would only need balancing if scions couldn't fight it off. In the late-game sonic is a perfect counter to MDM. In the mid game it's an issue, but simply because ISDF can keep the scion team at bay with lasers so that they can't get out there and shoot the MDM-wielding tank, an issue we'll probably see balanced with something like giving sentries absorbtion shields as a stock armament.

Or, as an even-briefer summary, the dogfights already ARE balanced, and will remain just as balanced if blink is modified, because short 20m blinks to confuse the opponent can be used in the current 1.2 games, and don't unbalance the dogfights.

[Red Devil]

Excellent objective feedback and analysis, DF.  You too, AW. Exactly what I need.  Points off for using "disorientate" though.  Sorry, pet peeve.

As I understand it:

Short hops for Combat Blink not using weapon ammo, with a short recharge rate.

Lonnnnng jumps for Assault Blink using weapon ammo (non-recharging).


So,

If you use Combat Blink, you can bounce around short hops like a Daffy Duck and use your weapon ammo to fight with.

Once out of weapon ammo though, you won't be able to use Assault Blink to escape.

If you have weapon ammo, you can use Assault Blink to make a long jump.  But once you arrive, all you can do is hop around.

That about right?

[Spawn]

make combat blink be able to go 40m every ten seconds or soemthing of that sort

[Red Devil]

Was trying it out last night and realized we'll have to reduce or eliminate the explosions.  Wound up right back where I was when I got there, which is kinda counter-productive...  Works well otherwise.    Just need to know how many jumps should Assault Blink get on its ammo.

[DarkFox]

About the same as it does in 1.2 will be right RD. i think it's about 200 ammo plus 1 ammo per 2 meters, but that's just from memory.

As for the explosions - I assume you're talking about blinkin and blinkout right? Their damage is ok, but their push effect should be removed IMO. The scattering of service trucks from blink is a little ridiculously good for stopping a serviced assault.