controling ai scrap supply mpi

[mrtwosheds]

Ok im trying to develop the aip's for "The Legions Of Scaro". It is clear that the mpi AI does indeed have far more scrap than that which is collected via pools or scavs, by about a factor of 10....which is fine in theory.
But it is making the aip development somewhat difficult because Daleks are extremely dangerous.
To put it bluntly I am being EXTERMINATED before I get to the aip I am trying to test.
Is there a way to control this generous supply of scrap the ai benefits from?

[Cheat]
moneyAmount = 0
moneyDelay = 0
does not seem to affect it.

[wug]

I don't think it's a factor of 10, but anyway....

AFAIK, it can't be reduced by the AIPs.  Maybe try a negative number for money amount?

[GSH]

Boost the costs of units produced.

-- GSH

[mrtwosheds]

The factor of 10 is a guestimation derived from analysis of the post game srap statistic, add up scrap collected etc and then observe that the total scap spent seems to bear no relation to this number and have 1 more digit than would be expected...

Boosting the unit cost would affect the ai's ability to produce unit when in a low pool situation.

Maybe try a negative number for money amount? I could try that.

Or get the ai to build expensive inanimate/invisible objects with a limited lifespan....Just for testing purposes.

[Red Devil]

Make all their build times the same, make everything cost 60 scrap, and limit them to one pool by editing the map, then compare at the end.  All things being equal and all that.

[wug]

I was half joking about the negative moneyAmount, though I've never tried it.

Personally, I'm not sure what the built-in scrap cheat is in MPI... somewhere between 0.5 to 1 scrap per second?  If the post-game stats are out of whack, maybe it's something to ask GSH to look at (but that's a separate issue).

The only thing I can think of to help control it from an AIP perspective is to limit it based on "HisExists/NotHisExists" or "HisMinTtlScrap/HisMaxTtlScrap" conditions.  So if the player has not built a bomber bay or does not have a minimum of 2 scrap pools, for example, use a buildMinimum or attacker plan of say 2 units instead of 5.  Or whatever.

It doesn't slow down production, but should achieve a similar effect.

[Avatar]

This goes back to the age-old question of balance...  Very effective units should be some combination of Cost a lot, Take time to make, Have high prerequesites.

IOW if they're so darn powerful they need to take more time to make, or cost more, or be higher up the tech tree, or or or...

FIRST hit them with fast, cheap, quick to build units.
THEN bring in the slower, more expensive, longer to build units.
FINALLY try the specialty units, the one-shot units, the 'trick' units, and the slow, expensive, forever to build 'uber' units.



-Av-

[Red Devil]

I think what MTS is saying is that the AI seems to be getting more scrap than what is intended, even without the scrap cheats active.

Scrap cheat si is supposed to dole out the moneyAmount every moneyDelay seconds.  If moneyAmount = 20 and moneyDelay = 60, the AI gets 20 extra scrap every 60 seconds.

[Avatar]

They're Daleks...

They cheat...

Dirty little cybernetic lizards...   

-Av-

[mrtwosheds]

 
The negative scrap cheat does work! It tames the dirty cheating little cybernetic GM squids just fine....

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[Red Devil]

Then that indicates that something is kerflooey with the AI scrap.  What settings did you use?

[GreenHeart]

Then that indicates that something is kerflooey with the AI scrap.  What settings did you use?

Sorry Red, their is nothing buggy or wrong with the ai scrap system except the dll's scrap cheat & the aip's doesn't use the scrap cheat unless its specified in the aip. Prehaps afew campain missions may have that scrap cheat enabled but not stock13_ aips for instant or mpi.

[Red Devil]

 Since he said he is using his own AIP's and he isn't using the cheats in his AIP's, then something sounds amiss.

I consistently see more scrap spent by the AI than is collected by the AI in Gamestats.

[mrtwosheds]

The first dalek vs dalek aip is using
[Cheat]
moneyAmount = -5
moneyDelay = 2
the second
[Cheat]
moneyAmount = -10
moneyDelay = 2 //!!!
and its still quit hard for 1 person...I dont know what its doing, but it seems to slow it down enough for me to actually get a base up.
Unit pricing is not really much different from stock, and it is paying for its saucer(bomber)
Im not complaining about the Ai scrap supply, its much better than the old 1.2 mpi victim. The ai needs allot of scrap to fight 4 humans.
I also need to balance my weapons some more...

[wug]

Wow... -2.5 scrap/sec.  That should stop all production.  Something's not right....

Were the ODFs modified to collect scrap faster?