Is it possible to cheat in multiplayer?

[OvermindDL1]

As has been stated above, pretty much all known multiplayer cheats/hacks/etc... have been fixed in 1.3.

[Red Devil]

Then there's Talons...

and Draths...Dreads...Monsters...Alien Artifacts...sniping bots...hungry animals...Krahanos...weapon countering...

[Zero Angel]

Even strat players do not consider DM a 'real game'. The problem with DMs is that there is no system in place to ensure that it is played fair, no counters. In BZ2 DM, it is not uncommon for someone like sly and debug to camp the laser powerups with laser/stings (because the powerups take so long to spawn) or to fly around the map killing two low hp units who are having a duel in the sake of 'owning'. Only strat is a regulator of fairness because each team must stick together, and the defenses (in FE and in ZST) actually have some strategic value. Sure you still get campers and people who kill the first scavs but one of the reasons why 'vet strats' are so restricted to known players (and that the current team picking system is in place) is to prevent that from happening, or to prevent teams from being stacked. Strats have rules (ie: no camping, no human mortar bikes, no stuff in stuff) and built in systems to prevent unfairness from happening so that your skill has an effect rather than having your score determined by how dirty you play.

I agree with Avatar when he says that everyone sees the game in a different way. Some people will always favor MPI because it is more strategic than tactical and theres nothing wrong with that despite what some of the more elitist 'strat is the only real game' vets will say. The way I see it ST will always be more tactical and MPI (as well as 1v1 ST) will always be more strategic -- and this is a darn good design of the game because it satisfies most of the players who are really interested in BZ2.

As for hovering, I simply want people to stop trying to justify it as a 'skill'. It was declared an exploit by the developers, end of conversation. If you can't live without that explit, by all means, stay in 1.2 and face all those annoying bugs and intential chat line crash exploits.

*Please* dont turn this into a flame war. I have a far different opinion on this matter than you do, and you asserting your opinion so brazenly *again* and for the millionth time, tempts me to want to tell you off. Obviously, i'd rather this be discussed among civil adults and not like a bunch of hard headed fools.

[General BlackDragon]

but he's right though...thats exactly what most vet "noobs" will do, stay in 1.2 so they can hover. Some people arnt good enough at strat to win a game without using the hover trick to kill enemy defences/power/recy. its kindof sad...

[Avatar]

Thank you, ZA, nicely stated.

As to hovering, flying, infinite whatever you want to call it, the ultimate answer to the entire issue is that, under 1.3, you can recreate 1.2 physics well enough to please most everyone if you want to. 

And of course you can still run 1.2 as well as 1.3, I've got eight installs going right now with no troubles in any of them.

I usually get tired of a game in a matter of weeks.  Often I go back to a game I haven't played in a while and replay it on my next system, just to see if on better hardware (HOMEWORLD).  Sometimes I go back to a game every now and then (HALO) because I truly enjoy playing it.  Many games I've played through but am also keeping on the back burner until I get a more powerful system (DOOM3).

Only ONE game has gone to each and every system I have, and is currently on three here.  Only ONE game is worth the HD space to have multiple of installs for.  Only ONE game has driven me to learn as much as I have about so many modding topics.  Has driven me to write stories.  Has caused me to buy stand up arcade machines I have no real room for.  Hey, it's even paid for itself over the years.

Amazing, this addiction.



-Av-

[Commando]

As much crap as the vets get, at least they actually play the game.  I don't see many of those opposed to flying actually playing this game.

[Nielk1]

True. I am always messing with the back end.











Wait, that sounded wrong...

[Sonic]

*Please* dont turn this into a flame war. I have a far different opinion on this matter than you do, and you asserting your opinion so brazenly *again* and for the millionth time, tempts me to want to tell you off. Obviously, i'd rather this be discussed among civil adults and not like a bunch of hard headed fools.

Once again, I'm pointing out that it IS an EXPLOIT as declared by the developers. Calling it a skill would be saying grabbing nice script kiddie software and exploiting weaknesses in an old version apache as skill. You can go on all you want with your opinion to why it should not have been called an exploit, but in the end, the decision is not yours, it is the developers.

If you want to continue using 1.2 and use the exploit, thats fine, its your proagitive. I'm simply asking you not to try and color it by calling it a 'skill'. I much rather see "It's a bug that over the years people have found uses for." than to see "It's a skill that anyone can use and counter". It prevents alot of confusion with new commers who can easily get confused when they find they can't perform this 'skill' in an up-to-date and more stable version of Battlezone II.

As to hovering, flying, infinite whatever you want to call it, the ultimate answer to the entire issue is that, under 1.3, you can recreate 1.2 physics well enough to please most everyone if you want to. 

Flying isn't hard to do in 1.3 mods. A friend of mine enjoys bizare MPI games, so I mod in scouts than can infact fly for a brief time. You can't do the infinite flying deal but you can soar clear across the map if you hit the right hills. The down side would be you tend to land in front of one of the AI's super towers. Before you have a chance to know it, you already are soaring via your ejection seat.

As much crap as the vets get, at least they actually play the game.  I don't see many of those opposed to flying actually playing this game.

There are these games called 'private' you know. Just because you don't see me in any public games doesn't mean I'm not playing with other people in private games. It's rare, but I do get the occasional chance to have a nice long game with a few of my friends that we actually enjoy.

[Feared_1]

I agree with Commando, vets do get a lot of crap even though they play more often and are the most skilled players in the game. It would be nice to have them in 1.3, but vets are too impatient to run around the map without ghosting as it takes about three times as long.

Vet players are also simply too impatient to lock down every single scrap pool with 4 gun towers, 3 rocket tanks, and 5 chain turrets to defend them from 10 tanks that the other team might work up.

If you have played a ZST strat, it is quite a rush. Everything happens so fast and follows a particular pattern/system. Taking away 3 things vets love the most (exploits) throw them out of that pattern and into this slow-moving, 30 tanks, attack, fail, leave type of game (or "we need to build two tanks to take out that turret").

I'm not personally taking a side, I'm just trying to allow people to see a bigger picture. I enjoy reading conversations like this.

[Nielk1]

Sonic, you just seem a bit angry.

Yes, Flying is an EXPLOIT, but it is a skill.

Being a Conartist is to exploit others but it is a skill.

Now, that bit about script-kiddies is an invalid comparison.

Just throwing that out there.

So, what are some other exploits (don't say how to do it in the public forum of course).

What is this ghosting?

I like 1.3 because it forces a STRAT to be played as a strategy game, not a "fly around and kill everything as a super unit" game. 1.3's new options for DM draw me to it aswell.

When I play 1.2, I like "no flying in base" games (except for some mods that make flying an integral part with specialized defence and attack units/buildings).

[Feared_1]

If you have ever played 1.2 or before, you will notice that your ship is "allowed" to sink slightly into the terrain before it pops back out. You are unable to go through it, so you pop up to the top.

I'm not going to elaborate on how to do it, but ghosting is basically throwing your ship nose first into the ground repeatedly to pop you out of the ground quickly, cycling through the process to speed you up to over 3-4 times faster than your ship should go (or more). There are other ways, but they are much more complicated.

Once you get going even a little over the speed that the ship is suppose to go, the image of your ship will start to lag behind your actual position. This is your "ghost". Your ghost can not hit or be hit by anything including objects, terrain, or weaponry. It literally slides through everything if you manage to speed around objects fast enough.

The ghost has a few purposes in a ZST:

1. Sneaky attacks (Slide around things before your ghost catches up)
2. Easier getaway (Target the ghost or the player position?)
3. Base rushing (sort of scary watching your Recycler die from ships that are still making their way to your base)
4. Simply a side effect of moving fast

Once you get going fast, it gives you quite a good feeling inside that not too many things are able to hit you (except the AI and players who have you targeted) and the speed gives you a feeling of accomplishment.

1.3 took out the ability to sink into the ground (good thing, don't get me wrong) which removes the ability to ghost.

[Nielk1]

THAT's GHOSTING?

I called that "spring boarding" because I did not know about the multiworld effects.

[Zero Angel]

Nah feared but your close. 1.3 took out the ability to go past your allowed topspeed by using additional sources of thrust (which causes the ghosting bug in 1.2 and earlier) I've noticed ghosting among some people when they are already in the air. Plus, I have never been able to move through scavs, extractors, buildings and even directly through other ships -- though my image might on laggy games.

It used to be called fast running because a person who did this could outrun an opponent who was firing directly at him, because he was using more sources of thrust (by nosing down and using his side thrusters).

Everyone who knows how to utilize his ship's acceleration and handling to its full potential will tend to ghost simply by the way he moves (you can't really know when you're ghosting). Most of the common ghosting is harmless though, the ghosting caused by purposefully invoking lag is the more dangerous type -- though I can count on only one hand the vets who I believe do this.

Experienced 1.2 players rely on their radar and target keys because only these will give an accurate reading of where the enemy actually is.

[bigbadbogie]

but without being able to use additional sources of thrust, the game loses some realism elements.

[mrtwosheds]

It is good that the ghosting bug is fixed, it was one thing that really ruined the realism of the game, anyone who has a problem with this should just go and find a single player game with an invincibility cheat and play that instead.