Battlezone Universe

Battlezone Universe => Overdrive Terminal => Topic started by: BS-er on October 15, 2008, 12:21:15 AM

Title: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 15, 2008, 12:21:15 AM
We've released an early open beta of Machines, Anarchy and Destruction.  The goal in releasing an open beta is to expose it to a variety of hardware in order to understand any issues.

We're going to submit the game to the 2009 Independent Games Festival competition on October 31, so the more people that beat on it, the better our entry will be!

Grab the beta 0.1 demo at: http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/mad_beta0.1.exe (http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/mad_beta0.1.exe).  It's about 73.4 MB in size.

Please post feedback in the beta testing boards at the forum: http://forum.orderlymayhem.com (http://forum.orderlymayhem.com).  We're most interested in feedback regarding technical glitches and bugs at moment.  Design suggestions and gripes are also much appreciated, but will likely be delt with after we've submitted our game to the IGF competition.

Some sounds and models are temporary or currently missing, so they will be improved shortly.

Thanks to all who lend their time!

EDIT
I made some mistakes in the installer.  It was supposed to install two essential components, which may or may not be on many systems already.

If anyone is having trouble getting it to run, try installing the two components below:
Microsoft Redistributable Libraries for VC2005 SP1 (http://www.download.com/Microsoft-Visual-C-2005-SP1-Redistributable-Package-x86-/3000-2070_4-10726887.html)
OpenAL Installer (http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Downloads/oalinst.zip)

EDIT
There is also an issue where the game depends on a more recent DirectX 10 version than some may have installed.  If you get an error message Regarding any missing DLLs, please update to the latest revision of DirectX 10.

EDIT
An update to the game executable is available at:
http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/MadGame.exe (http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/MadGame.exe)
This executable fixes a problem where the game crashed on some platforms with high end audio cards that have Xtreme Audio (X-RAM).  It also allows vehicle control keys to be changed from the Control Settings page.
Put this exe in the mad_win folder of the game folder.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Angstromicus on October 15, 2008, 04:45:47 AM
Downloading. Counting frags tomorrow, sheep tonight  :-).
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: bigbadbogie on October 15, 2008, 05:51:57 AM
Brilliant!!

An absoloutely spectacular game!!!

Just spent a couple of hours on it. Finished training and a few IA missions.

The graphics are beautiful, the gameplay is extremely fun and the physics and scenery are downright incredible!

I'll definitely be spending some more serious hours on this!!!!
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Steeveeo on October 15, 2008, 05:59:57 AM
oooOOoooo, been lookin forward to this! Downloading!
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Nielk1 on October 15, 2008, 12:52:05 PM
Grrrrr, can't test till Friday.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 15, 2008, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: bigbadbogie on October 15, 2008, 05:51:57 AM
Brilliant!!

An absoloutely spectacular game!!!

Just spent a couple of hours on it. Finished training and a few IA missions.

The graphics are beautiful, the gameplay is extremely fun and the physics and scenery are downright incredible!

I'll definitely be spending some more serious hours on this!!!!

Wow I was expecting some attaboys, but I wasn't expecting that much of a glowing review at all.  As a developer, after awhile all you see are problems problems problems, making you feel less than secure than you probably should be.  Still its far from perfect of course, stil an early beta.

I made some mistakes in the installer.  It was supposed to install two essential components, which may or may not be on many systems already.

If anyone is having trouble getting it to run, try installing the two components below:
Microsoft Redistributable Libraries for VC2005 SP1 (http://www.download.com/Microsoft-Visual-C-2005-SP1-Redistributable-Package-x86-/3000-2070_4-10726887.html)
OpenAL Installer (http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Downloads/oalinst.zip)
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 15, 2008, 04:41:43 PM
OpenAL is used by many games in modern times, hence most probably already have it.
As for the VC2k5 redistributable, BZ2 1.3 requires and includes it, so yea, everyone here would already have it as well. :P
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 15, 2008, 05:06:08 PM
There are a few things I don't like regarding the physics.  Both turning rate and turret rotational rate seem to be too high for me to get use to.  Bz2 seemed to have some build in delay to handle turning called alphaSteer.  The steering wouldn't be so bad if I didn't use the A and D keys for steering.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 15, 2008, 05:54:58 PM
You can change the controlling method, there are a few of them.  And BZ2's delay is not strictly just alphasteer, do not forget that BZ2 operates at 10 times a second, meaning your input could by delayed by as much as 100 milliseconds, 1/10 of a second.  This is a good article about in-game responsiveness (and something BSer might read too, good ideas to watch for) (http://cowboyprogramming.com/2008/05/30/measuring-responsiveness-in-video-games/).
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 15, 2008, 06:05:58 PM
Yeah, that is one of the settings that prevents the steering from being too responsive in bz2.  I had to set alphaSteer to 2 to allow the player to keep his reticule on an enemy while turning.  Leaving it too low resulted in jerky turning due to the quick acceleration.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Huscar on October 15, 2008, 06:38:22 PM
Downloading right now, good to see you made progress.
I hope I'm not going to far off-topic with this but could you tell me what graphics engine you used again? I seem to remember you said it was a free one. Looking into making an AI-centered game myself, that's why I'm asking. Again, sorry for going off-toppic.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 15, 2008, 07:44:10 PM
The game uses Ogre (http://www.ogre3d.org) for graphics.  I'm quite satisfied overall.  It can seem complex, but pays dividends when you get to know it fairly well.  It seems to be scaling nicely with the graphics card technology.  I like some of the addons that have been made for it, such as the editable terrain and paging geometry (which I use mostly for grass and shrubs).  Other addons are in the pipeline, notably a particle effects plugin that's more advanced than the simple one that is included.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Steeveeo on October 15, 2008, 09:51:38 PM
My Review:

Short, but expected for a demo. VOs were QUIET, had to turn everything WAY up to hear the voice telling me what to do, then when the audio returned, my ears got blasted! Graphics are good, a couple noticeable glitches (like the factory "building" mesh gets stuck as that of the Fighter plane), and the explosions could be tons better.

Also, I couldnt figure out how to group anything built from the factory, nothing else showed up in the group panel and the RTS standard Highlight->Ctrl+Groupnumber did nothing.

BTW, needs a full on RTS IA (like in BZ2).
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: TheJamsh on October 15, 2008, 10:46:42 PM
not the easiet install ever, havent managed to play it yet as i keep getting missing file errors. one of which is related to Ogrse

'This application has failed to start because d3dx9_33.dll was not found. reinstalling may fix'

AND

OGRE Exception(7:InternalErrorException): could not load dynamic library .\rendersystem_direct3d9. system error: the specified modulecould not be found in DynLib::load at..\src\ogredynlib.cpp (line 80)
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Nielk1 on October 15, 2008, 10:57:47 PM
Did you try installing the 2 parts he said where not included in the installer?
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: TheJamsh on October 15, 2008, 10:58:57 PM
yeh... no joy
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: bigbadbogie on October 15, 2008, 11:09:05 PM
Upgrade your card. Seriously.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 16, 2008, 03:42:43 AM
Quote from: TheJamsh on October 15, 2008, 10:46:42 PM
not the easiet install ever, havent managed to play it yet as i keep getting missing file errors. one of which is related to Ogrse

'This application has failed to start because d3dx9_33.dll was not found. reinstalling may fix'

AND

OGRE Exception(7:InternalErrorException): could not load dynamic library .\rendersystem_direct3d9. system error: the specified modulecould not be found in DynLib::load at..\src\ogredynlib.cpp (line 80)

That means your directx is out of date no doy. :P
Update it.  MAD uses DX9_2008summer.  Aka, DX9 version 33, so that means your directx9 is older.  It tends to be smart to keep your drivers and game apis up to date afterall. :)
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Steeveeo on October 16, 2008, 04:18:44 AM
BTW, Unlock control mapping! the way my keyboard is setup, the keys just dont fit..
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 16, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
Quote from: Steeveeo on October 15, 2008, 09:51:38 PM
VOs were QUIET, had to turn everything WAY up to hear the voice telling me what to do, then when the audio returned, my ears got blasted!

Something is wierd with your audio drivers, my parents computer has the same issue.  Your audio chip/driver is not liking certain sample rates or formats.  Before going and updating any drivers though, I'd like to use your system as a guinea pig if you don't mind.  I'd like to send you the beginning VO to the training mission in different sampling rates to see if one of them works better.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 16, 2008, 03:52:53 PM
Steevo, when you get a chance, would you please grab this file:
http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/intro.ogg (http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/intro.ogg)
and put it in the media\missions\Training Day folder of the game folder?
See if the first VO of the training mission is at a decent volume with this file.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: TheJamsh on October 16, 2008, 09:06:16 PM
i have DX10 installed on this computer

and i cant afford to upgrade the card. lappys got a good one neways... got drums to pay for, and driving, missus... etc. the list goes on
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: GSH on October 16, 2008, 09:32:36 PM
To properly update all the quarterly DirectX DLL updates, you'll need to run either the "web" (i.e. with an active internet connection) DirectX installer from
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3)
or the full (i.e. offline, but an 80MB download) installer from
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C1367BC3-4676-481A-BFAA-5C15D1D7199D&displaylang=en (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C1367BC3-4676-481A-BFAA-5C15D1D7199D&displaylang=en) .

-- GSH
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 16, 2008, 11:26:17 PM
Yes, do what GSH and I said.  Even though you may have DX10, you are still missing the smaller updates that came after DX10 for DX9, hence you are out of date, as I stated.  Even DX10 has incremental updates, so you should still stay updated.
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Huscar on October 17, 2008, 09:55:28 AM
Just played the training mission. Looks very good! Graphics may not be topnotch but they're good enough, units look very nice. I noticed the units sent to attack the target had a bit of difficulty actually hitting it. They generally shot above it (this was not always the case, but most shots missed). There were also some minor things I found somewhat annoying. First off the S key would turn the vehicle right around instead of braking, this is somewhat counter-intuitive if you have played a couple of games. Second (and this is just minor) the shots are very bz2ish, makes it look a bit like a bz2-wannabe and I think that would do no right to the great game this seems to become. Last of all, the training mission did not have any combat-related explanations, no biggy, but it just seems to lack something without it (just my opinion)
Well that's all I can think of for now, looks very promissing! I definitely like the unit design. Feels good as well (when making the jump for instance).

I'll test it some more later on, keep on the good work!
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: TheJamsh on October 17, 2008, 01:52:12 PM
i played, but damn is it heavy on my machine! wont run properly unfortunately. ill try on my higher spec system later on. but i have to say, it looks very promising and i love the BZII influence =]
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: hybirdisdf on October 17, 2008, 10:27:11 PM
A required .Dll file ,MSVCP80.DLL,was not found.What was that mean?
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Nielk1 on October 18, 2008, 12:28:00 AM
Quote from: BS-er on October 15, 2008, 12:58:42 PM
If anyone is having trouble getting it to run, try installing the two components below:
Microsoft Redistributable Libraries for VC2005 SP1 (http://www.download.com/Microsoft-Visual-C-2005-SP1-Redistributable-Package-x86-/3000-2070_4-10726887.html)
OpenAL Installer (http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Downloads/oalinst.zip)

Try the first one, though you need the first one to get 1.3pb4a (and 1.3pb4) to work too.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 18, 2008, 02:36:19 AM
Quote from: Steeveeo on October 16, 2008, 04:18:44 AM
BTW, Unlock control mapping! the way my keyboard is setup, the keys just dont fit..

I've just finished adding control key binding to the game.  It will be in the next beta released at the end of the month.

You can make it up to me by helping me out in testing that voiceover file ;).  See below:

Quote from: BS-er on October 16, 2008, 03:52:53 PM
Steevo, when you get a chance, would you please grab this file:
http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/intro.ogg (http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/intro.ogg)
and put it in the media\missions\Training Day folder of the game folder?
See if the first VO of the training mission is at a decent volume with this file.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: CivBase on October 18, 2008, 03:01:01 AM
Keeps telling me to reinstall the OpenAL32.dll....
I'm no game designer so I hope you don't mind me asking what I should do to do this?
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 18, 2008, 04:43:14 AM
Did you catch my earlier post on installer mistakes?

Quote from: BS-er on October 15, 2008, 12:58:42 PM
I made some mistakes in the installer.  It was supposed to install two essential components, which may or may not be on many systems already.

If anyone is having trouble getting it to run, try installing the two components below:
Microsoft Redistributable Libraries for VC2005 SP1 (http://www.download.com/Microsoft-Visual-C-2005-SP1-Redistributable-Package-x86-/3000-2070_4-10726887.html)
OpenAL Installer (http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Downloads/oalinst.zip)

Let me know if you're having the problem even after installing those items.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: CivBase on October 18, 2008, 05:48:22 PM
I did that, now I get these:

(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/CivBase/MAD1.jpg)

(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/CivBase/MAD2.jpg)
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 18, 2008, 06:19:08 PM
And that means your DirectX is out of date.  MAD uses DX9 version 2008summer(spring?), aka version 33, yours is outdated.  Update directX.  Or you can try it in OpenGL, that just relies on your video card drivers being somewhat new.
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: CivBase on October 18, 2008, 07:57:58 PM
How do I update it?  I got those messages after I downloaded the two things you told me to download.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Nielk1 on October 18, 2008, 08:16:21 PM
You still had the errors before you put in what he said, you just never got to them. A DirectX updater is linked in a post in this topic already, and as he said, just select OpenGL from the list to not use DX at all. Note that screen, with all the options?
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 18, 2008, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: CivBase on October 18, 2008, 05:48:22 PM
I did that, now I get these:

(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/CivBase/MAD1.jpg)

(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/CivBase/MAD2.jpg)

Sorry for the hassle Civbase.  Goes with the territory of releasing a beta I guess.  Those messages indicate the need to update to latest DirectX.  I'm going to update the first message of this post so that others don't have to scour the thread to know what needs updating.  Thanks for your patience :).
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 18, 2008, 08:36:42 PM
I'd hate to bloat the size of the game to double its size by including DirectX 10.  I may look into a way to check for the required DLL, and recommend an update during the install.  I'd have it use a smaller web installer to install DirectX 10, but some people may not want to shift to DirectX 10, and I don't know if there are any reasons one might want to avoid installing DirectX 10.  I think Microsift is still keeping the DirectX 9 installation up-to-date. 
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: CivBase on October 18, 2008, 10:16:46 PM
Awsome!  That looks much better than I expected!

I'm currently in training and there's a few minor things that probably aren't as miner on your side:
When I am looking backwords, my turn keys invert, making turning very difficult.
I suggest adding a 3rd person view (or is there one that I just haven't found yet?)
When I press reverse to slow down, I turn to the side.
Turing is extremely fast.
The voice is kinda weird (Microsoft Sam?), but that's no big deal.
The default boost key is in a funky position, but like the voice, that's no big deal (especialy since I can change it).
When you shoot the water, there is no splash animation
The vehicle explosions are a bit.... big, don't you think?
When I built new units from the factory, they didn't go to my squad menu.
The hauler circles around the area that the crate is being dropped at, rather than waiting there.
Do you have to manualy command haulers?
The reasource meter uses rather small numbers... couldn't you move those up a diget?  Then decimals wouldn't be neccessary.
I had some problems moving my squad in water, in the end I was driving around and noticed one for the vehicles was just sitting in the water.  Is that just because it was there when the vehicle I told the squad to destroy was destroyed?  If so, I recomend you have them continue to the destroyed enemy rather than just sitting there (possibly in enemy teritory).
The redical for making buildings is very misleading.  Couldn't you make it so the building shows up as a hologram or something so that you can see what it is?
You may want to make it so that you can still operate your vehicle while in a menu.

I don't mean to sound picky or anything, it's an awsome game!  But, hey, that's what a beta's for.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 18, 2008, 10:46:36 PM
Quote from: TheJamsh on October 17, 2008, 01:52:12 PM
i played, but damn is it heavy on my machine! wont run properly unfortunately. ill try on my higher spec system later on. but i have to say, it looks very promising and i love the BZII influence =]

Jamsh, could you post specs of your machine (laptop?), and maybe typical framerate, with low graphics settings (800x600, turn off anistropic terrain and bloom for sure, maybe weeds at half density).  I'm trying to get an idea of what graphics cards/chips are just barely tolerable and what is just below the tolerability threshold.  I suspect that your system is barely tolerable?

Thanks for the feedback CivBase.  Don't worry I'm used to the pickiness.  It comes with the game development territory.  Gamers (me included) are picky and fickle :).

Quote from: CivBase on October 18, 2008, 10:16:46 PM
Do you have to manualy command haulers?
In the Warefare Unlimited strat mission, haulers are self-sufficient at gathering resources unless you need them to do your bidding.  Telling them to "Hold" will cause them to go about their business.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 19, 2008, 01:54:04 AM
Quote
I'd hate to bloat the size of the game to double its size by including DirectX 10.  I may look into a way to check for the required DLL, and recommend an update during the install.  I'd have it use a smaller web installer to install DirectX 10, but some people may not want to shift to DirectX 10, and I don't know if there are any reasons one might want to avoid installing DirectX 10.  I think Microsift is still keeping the DirectX 9 installation up-to-date. 

I still use Direct X 9.0 because I am still on Windows XP.  As far as I know, only Vista has DX 10.  If I were to install Vista, I would install it as a secondary operating system and not as my primary OS.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 19, 2008, 05:03:05 AM
Quote from: BS-er on October 18, 2008, 08:36:42 PM
I'd hate to bloat the size of the game to double its size by including DirectX 10.  I may look into a way to check for the required DLL, and recommend an update during the install.  I'd have it use a smaller web installer to install DirectX 10, but some people may not want to shift to DirectX 10, and I don't know if there are any reasons one might want to avoid installing DirectX 10.  I think Microsift is still keeping the DirectX 9 installation up-to-date. 
As I stated somewhere else on your boards before, your DX SDK comes with a redistributable that is quite small, only containing enough of DX to run your mod, as such it updates peoples DX to include what yours needs (but not really anything else, just enough to run your game), or if they are already updated enough it does nothing.

And yes, DX9 is still being updated to this day, as well as being faster then DX10 due to design.
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Huscar on October 19, 2008, 12:31:25 PM
Tested all instant options, looks good really. Aiming was not an issue this time as the vehicles definitly got blown up. Maybe the helicopter has a bit of trouble with it but I'm not 100% sure about it. Oh, and does the chopper have a down key? Tried q but didn't work :(. In case there isn't any: it does kinda need it in order to get to the right level with the service bay.
Well, that's pretty much it, sure it isn't finished but seems to me it's going to be great, runs smooth as well. Keep it up!
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 19, 2008, 12:37:14 PM
I've been saying the same thing regarding the down key.  At least I'm not the only one who feels it is needed.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 19, 2008, 04:15:47 PM
Z is the down key.  I thought more people would notice the help button on the esc screen, which describes the control keys.  The training guy even mentions the help button.  Maybe he's too boring ;).

Vehicle control keys will be rebindable in the next beta anyway on the Control Settings page.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 19, 2008, 05:08:27 PM
Quote from: OvermindDL1 on October 19, 2008, 05:03:05 AM
As I stated somewhere else on your boards before, your DX SDK comes with a redistributable that is quite small, only containing enough of DX to run your mod, as such it updates peoples DX to include what yours needs (but not really anything else, just enough to run your game), or if they are already updated enough it does nothing.

And yes, DX9 is still being updated to this day, as well as being faster then DX10 due to design.
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What would be ideal is a web installer that will patch up the DirectX 9 interface on computers with both DirectX 9 and DirectX 10.  Maybe Microsoft has built such flexibility into their we installer but I'm too jaded to believe it off the bat.  I don't have the latest DirectX SDK myself, and not sure I want to fuss with getting it until I've looked into whether Microsoft's web installer is truly smart and will do the right thing on any machine.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: AcneVulgaris on October 19, 2008, 05:18:22 PM
I finally got to look at this last night...Very, Very Awesome!  Congratulations you guys!

If you need a mirror for distribution, let me know.  I have a T1 now, and you can have all the bandwidth you want.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 19, 2008, 08:47:47 PM
Quote from: BS-er on October 19, 2008, 05:08:27 PM
What would be ideal is a web installer that will patch up the DirectX 9 interface on computers with both DirectX 9 and DirectX 10.  Maybe Microsoft has built such flexibility into their we installer but I'm too jaded to believe it off the bat.  I don't have the latest DirectX SDK myself, and not sure I want to fuss with getting it until I've looked into whether Microsoft's web installer is truly smart and will do the right thing on any machine.
But a web installer requires access to the Internet, which you cannot rely on (even a couple of my machines here do not have network access).  And as stated, do no download the latest SDK, just inside whatever SDK directory you currently have, just take the tiny redistributable and include it inside of your installer and have the installer run it upon installation, does not matter what version of DX the person has installed, it could be DX6 or DX10, your game will then run in all cases.
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 19, 2008, 09:07:35 PM
Will OpenAl work with any sound card or is it something that is Proprietary to Creative Labs?  I tried installing MAD on my brother's computer which has an integrated sound card and therefore a non-creative labs sound card.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 19, 2008, 10:13:04 PM
OpenAL seems to work with every "modern-day" sound card/chip.  I'm not sure what, if any incompatabilities there are.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 20, 2008, 02:28:30 AM
There should not be incompatibilities, it is driver driven with a unified interface, designed just like OpenGL.  And just like OpenGL, if you have issues you upgrade your video drivers, you should update your sound card drivers.

OpenAL allows for near full access of hardware accelerated audio output, including environments and so forth.  It also handles software interfaces.  It does not handle input (like mics), but there are ones dedicated for those too.  OpenAL gives as much ASIO like power as possible, without the tremendous CPU cost that ASIO requires.
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: GreenHeart on October 20, 2008, 02:36:28 AM
Quote from: BS-er on October 19, 2008, 10:13:04 PM
OpenAL seems to work with every "modern-day" sound card/chip.  I'm not sure what, if any incompatabilities there are.

After installing your game it crashed on startup,unable to run it at all. (removing game from pc..)
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 20, 2008, 02:49:05 AM
I got it working on said computer.  I had to perform the following steps.

1.  Install OpenAl for the computer
2.  Download and Install DX 10 on the computer

Once both of those were installed, the game ran.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Sonic on October 20, 2008, 04:33:27 AM
Quote from: GreenHeart on October 20, 2008, 02:36:28 AM
After installing your game it crashed on startup,unable to run it at all. (removing game from pc..)

Report this over on BS-er's forum. Your problem sounds identical to mine which is being investigated.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Nielk1 on October 20, 2008, 02:58:19 PM
In the one IA mission, I forget the name but its Base vs Base, the enemy stacks its in base service bays and turrets. Fighting 5 turrets in 1 place as a helicopter is not easy. Also, then the service target is perfect center (service bays stocked on top of each other) the turrets on the bays spin round and round.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 20, 2008, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: GreenHeart on October 20, 2008, 02:36:28 AM
After installing your game it crashed on startup,unable to run it at all. (removing game from pc..)

Crap.  I would appreciate help from you though.  Please tell me all you can about your computer.  It's important that I get to the bottom of this.  Two people with similar issues is quite valuable.  I can see what commonalities exist and it might clue me in.  PLEASE tell me all you can about your computer.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 20, 2008, 06:47:40 PM
You really just need to remote debug into it BS-er.  If you do not want to then you can give me temp access to the code (of which I promise to delete afterwards if you so wish) and I can debug into it myself.

At the very least you need to have your app save a dump file upon an unexpected shutdown so you can at least see where it crashed, if not quite 'how' (hence remote debugging is useful for that).
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 20, 2008, 07:23:00 PM
I'm hoping that eventually we'll be able to change vehicles in-game like in bz1 and bz2 since being stuck with the same vehicle tends to get boring.  I'm not a big fan of the only one weapon to choose from in MAD.  It'll be interesting to see where MAD goes in the future.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 20, 2008, 07:55:25 PM
Do not worry about that is probably all I can say...
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 20, 2008, 07:56:17 PM
Yeah, from the impression I got, the ability to change vehicles in game is planned.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 20, 2008, 08:15:46 PM
GreenHeart doesn't have OpenAL installed which I assume is why MAD didn't run for him.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Sonic on October 20, 2008, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: Commando on October 20, 2008, 08:15:46 PM
GreenHeart doesn't have OpenAL installed which I assume is why MAD didn't run for him.

I ran MAD on a computer that did not have OpenAL (my father's machine). The game did not crash, it actually gave me a dialog saying OpenAL was missing and told me to go install it.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: GreenHeart on October 20, 2008, 10:21:34 PM
Quote from: Commando on October 20, 2008, 08:15:46 PM
GreenHeart doesn't have OpenAL installed which I assume is why MAD didn't run for him.

The Mad Beta installer comes with OpenAL & i installed everything that was offered by the installer. i tried the file commando told me to try, still nothing.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 21, 2008, 12:07:23 AM
Sonic helped confirmed that X-RAM (Xtreme Audio, whatever) is the failure mode in his case, and probably the same for GreenHeart.  I'm surely doing something wrong to offend X-RAM.  I'll solve that later, but for now I will disable X-RAM support until I can fix it.

Thanks to Sonic and GreenHeart for clues and assistance!!!
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 21, 2008, 03:24:05 AM
Makes me glad I didn't get a high end x-fi card.  I wonder what the X-Ram is used for if any program takes advantage of it.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 21, 2008, 05:27:45 AM
Yea, the x-fi cards I am staying away from, their drivers are... unstable to put it mildly.  As you can all now see. :p
I use an old Audigy Pro (yes, 1, the first), and I love it. :)
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Commando on October 21, 2008, 01:27:48 PM
I can agree with you there regarding Creative Lab's drivers sucking.  The only version of their drivers that I can work 100% with bz2 is the version preloaded in XP.  If I upgrade the drivers, my max sound channels gets reduced from 128 to 64, or with the latest drivers, the sound channels will get flooded and specific sounds won't play at all.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 21, 2008, 03:14:36 PM
An updated game executable is available at:
http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/MadGame.exe (http://www.orderlymayhem.com/downloads/MadGame.exe)

This takes care of the crashing problem with X-RAM, and adds settings to change vehicle control keys.

Put this exe in the mad_win folder of the game folder.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: CivBase on October 22, 2008, 02:29:26 AM
"This application has failed to start because OgreMain.dll was not found.  Re-installing the application may fix this problem."
-the message I get when I try to download that.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Nielk1 on October 22, 2008, 03:15:52 AM
You are supposed to download that to your hardrive and put it where he says. That error occurs from RUNNING it without placing it where it goes.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 22, 2008, 09:10:43 PM
Quote from: CivBase on October 22, 2008, 02:29:26 AM
"This application has failed to start because OgreMain.dll was not found.  Re-installing the application may fix this problem."
-the message I get when I try to download that.

What Nielk1 said :).  Easy mistake though.  We've all become used to download/run simplicity.  That's generally the best approach for formal patches.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: CivBase on October 22, 2008, 10:26:01 PM
Well, that works.  Thx
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: cheesepuffly on October 24, 2008, 04:12:23 AM
IT works, its not awesome, its a game i will surely play, but its not awesome (as in bz2 awesome).
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: OvermindDL1 on October 24, 2008, 04:38:40 AM
You should give reasons why, so as it can be made 'awesome'.  It is difficult to read your mind after all. :P
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Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: cheesepuffly on October 24, 2008, 01:21:05 PM
First of all, i never got to jump that thing in the tutorial, cause when i pressed the key, nothing really happened. 2 key that is

Maybe we could pilot the aircrafts? (unless i missed the part where you can)

A few power up might also be nice too.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 24, 2008, 04:13:58 PM
You must not have picked up the yellow boost powerups.  That or you didn't have the ignition key turned all the way ;).
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 24, 2008, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: cheesepuffly on October 24, 2008, 01:21:05 PM
First of all, i never got to jump that thing in the tutorial, cause when i pressed the key, nothing really happened. 2 key that is

I wonder if some may think that you just need to press and release the '2' key for the boost (or whatever key is bound).  Maybe I should make it clearer that you must hold it down to apply boost.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: cheesepuffly on October 24, 2008, 08:47:21 PM
That would be good.


Just out of curosity, what did you do in this game?
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: Nielk1 on October 24, 2008, 10:02:43 PM
Lets see, 98% of the coding I suspect. With 1% being Ogre and the other 1% being everything else.
Title: Re: Machines, Anarchy and Destruction Open Beta released!
Post by: BS-er on October 25, 2008, 12:48:10 AM
I did all programming (other than the open source code I used) plus general project management and lots of little things such as terrain textures, sounds.  If I wasn't the type of person who never quits once I start something, I would've aborted this project long ago :) due to the sheer immensity of responsibilities.

I've had lots of help of course.  Lizard did a lot of modeling and texturing, and really stepped up his game.  Lucky Foot and Black Manatee are pitching in some as well.