Great Job on 1.3!!!

[StoopidHuman]

I love the 1.3 upgrades. (Nathan&Ken?) and others should be proud. I believe these upgrades have moved BZ2 into the 21st century. Perhaps people like myself will now be able to play a challenging MPI online without getting hacked, crashed, lagged, or otherwise hampered by twirps.

Battlezone appears ready for another sequel, such as "Battlezone 3: Forbidden Planets" as example.  

good job, all  

[StoopidHuman]

Poster "Wingflier" made an excellent suggestion regarding AI issues---

"what about extractor killing? Do you really have time to tell all your AI scouts to destroy the enemy extractors while trying to build and defend your base? Can your AI scouts plant scavengers while you are busy building your base? What if I decide to mortar your AI scouts while they are defending something? Will they come and attack me? I think not. "

Would it be possible to add a "Scout" command to the scout menu? Attach simple random waypoints to a GoTo command then allow the scouts to attack anything they encounter along the way.  Psuedo VB code for clarity-

If ORDERS='Scout' Then

If (WayPointReached = TRUE) Then
Call GenerateNewWaypoint(CurrentX/Y)
Call NavigateToWaypoint(CurrentX/Y)

Else

If Check4Enemies(AttackRadius) = True Then
Call AutoAttack(SelectTarget)
WayPointReached = True
Orders="Attack"
Else
NavigateToWaypoint(X/Y)

End If(s) and Psuedo VB Code

Another command could be added which makes a scout plant a scav when it finds an empty pool. This command would only be enabled when the scout has a direct line out sight on an empty pool. The Commander(player) is asked which scav to assign to the scout. No code for this, I'm not writing a book today  


Wingflier quote at:
http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3477

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

put navs on the map at start, run around and place your navs and send the scout, making commands like that will just make the game so much easier, and you just said yourself that you want a more challenging game

[StoopidHuman]

I agree that the "Nav" method works about the same. But it's predictable. And some Units sent to Navs just sit there until the Commander issues another order. I've seen units get wiped out by Rocket Pods because they blindly sat at their Navs awaiting new orders.

But using the "Scout" command would add an element of "Surprise" to the current Commander AI. For example, one might order a Scout to "Scout" then assign several "Tanks" as "protecting escorts" to the scout.

Much of the complaints I've heard about AI issues relate to the predictibility of the AI Units. Whilst I'm neither an expert on this topic nor do I wish to create extra work for the community, I feel this might add fun to all games, including STRATS. Furthermore, increasing the AI of enemy units seems to call for enhanced Command AI abilities, no?

The Buzz on HALO2 is all about their AI.

Sub-Commands to the SCOUT command might  include "Scav Killer," "Targeting," "ScrapCollect," and so forth. But it would take considerable amounts of work to accomplish these changes and the BZ2CP appears to be a volunteer organization.

Just a suggestion, disregard if you hate it  

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

Sub-Commands to the SCOUT command might include "Scav Killer," "Targeting," "ScrapCollect," and so forth. But it would take considerable amounts of work to accomplish these changes and the BZ2CP appears to be a volunteer organization.

a scout can kill about 2 scavs before it runs out of ammo, making an option like that will again, just make the life of the commander easier, and I realy dont like that ida.
trageting? it already targets, if you tell it to target and nothing in sight it might go to a place deserted who knows where near the enemy base (for example, behind the enemy base) and then the enenmy could just kill it
either I misunderstood what targeting is supposed to do or its an odd idea

scrap collect - scavnge? for scouts? huh?


basicly what your suggesting is ways to make the commanders job easier



and as for strats: AI on the field is waste of scrap (exept some expetion in some situations, but your idea for AI on the field is a waste of scrap) so it wont realy work for strats

[Lizard]

this is infact an age old arguement , for a long time people used to complain about how stupid the AI was , then when smarter AI was introduced ( service trucks amongst other things) people complained that it took too much skill away from the human player , the general consensus finally agreed that we generally like our AI reasonably dumb aslong as it does roughly what we tell it to do .


people probably like the AI in Halo 2 because they are *ahem* console gamers   .

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

my only problem with AI is it doesnt do what I tell it to do - when it devolps a will of his own

e.g - I had a rocket tank 200m from rec with hornets, a relay bunker was 50m away, I told the rocket tank to hit the rec but instead, it was so keen on killing the relay (and missed every shot) I told it at least 10 times to hit the rec before I relized it wont work

[StoopidHuman]

I'm sorry, not trying to be an "Armchair Programmer" here. I realize that this requires great effort to achieve the desired results and balance.  what's more much of this effort is unpaid at this time.

It is my belief that  the BZ2 1.3 update has readied Battlezone for another sequel, one where everyone's hard work  pays off (in cash.) This is not up to me, Activision and Pandemic gets a vote,  but I believe in this game and the people who've been keeping it alive all these years. In fact I believe a two CD pack (game + mods) is in order here which means cash for the Modder community.


a scout can kill about 2 scavs before it runs out of ammo, making an option like that will again, just make the life of the commander easier, and I realy dont like that ida.

The problem with all this is you don't fully understand where I'm coming from. I'm approaching my BZ2 comments from the concept of a Sequel, or BZ3. In this sequel large numbers of new gamers will be introduced to the BZ game. Most will be playing by themselves, on a single computer or console like X-Box.  Later they'll gain advanced Commander skills and menus like ....

ORDERS Menu:
A). Follow Me
B). Attack
C). GoTo Nav
D). Scout Commands
1).ScavKill
          2).ScavDeploy
          3). Target
          4).Search and Destroy  
E). Defend Commands
         1). Defend Area
          2). Defend Unit
          3). Defend Building
F): PickMeUP

....can only enhance gameplay.
 

Whilst many VETS hate 'NOOBS" these new players  eventually become VETS and thus keep the game alive while PAYING the bills.

In terms of running out of ammo, why is it that units don't return to the base when they're out of ammo? Why must empty units sit like ducks?  

for a long time people used to complain about how stupid the AI was , then when smarter AI was introduced ( service trucks amongst other things) people complained that it took too much skill away from the human player

Not me! I love 1.3!!! I'm getting killed all the time, which used to NEVER happen on standard MPI games. The new aiming system is GREAT and the AI seems to know my every move. It is, as I've stated, ready for PRIME TIME where people get paid CASH for their hard work.

In my humble opinion...

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

I'mma be blunt & rude abit

In my humble opinion...

thats your opnion, and its - and with realy no offense ment (I'm just not good with words) is kinda new, we been here for ages and seen about everything

bz3 wont come, at least not in the near future and not by a major company (unless its being super-secrectly being worked on)

Whilst many VETS hate 'NOOBS" these new players eventually become VETS and thus keep the game alive while PAYING the bills.

I wrote few tutorails myself, and I've trained many newbs and have given many tips and guides to newer players so no, I do not hate "noobs"
some vets do though, no doubt - but the thing that your missing - with those type of options the "new vets" will be NEVER as good as the old vets

for example (if your famailer with ZST vs 1.2) take the best newer cmdr from ZST, and put him in a 1.2 game, he wont know what to do, and if thats not all, the 1.2 cmdrs have much more knowledge and do better in ZST even for their first few times vs 'new' vets that grew in ZST

....can only enhance gameplay.

a metter of opnion, I think it decreases gameplay
why? because if you got those orders "built in" you dont have to do them yourself --> less to do
I know the commander has LOTS to do but this just adds to the gameplay and roleplay of the commander


bottom line: with those options and better AI newer players will grow into less skilled vets and probably in a longer period of time + removing work from the commander

[Spawn]

the extra scout commands arent needed.  thats the best way to put it.
an ai scout paints anything near it, jsut have it attack whatever it paints.
tell an ai ship to hold, it will switch targets or start fighting (if it was moving) to have any ai ship defend a unit, simply tell it to follow said unit.  to defend a building, simply tell it to follow said building.  your making all of this so complicated, these are all unneeded features that can be easily completed by a player with a small amount of talent.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

theres no

1).ScavKill
2).ScavDeploy
4).Search and Destroy

[Spawn]

hold hold and hootload of navs

[StoopidHuman]

Ok, Ok I retreat to my beer.  

Note that I have been playing BZ2 for some time, since 1999 I think, and am interested in doing MODS myself, just don't have the time.  I just am new to this board, came here looking for HOST-TIPS, that's all.

I think BZ FE is an outstanding mod,  as is many of the others. In fact BZ FE outclasses many other games that I've purchased over the years.  On a good card the 'worlds' are outstanding and the Haydean maps/ships are better than the stock originals (which was made for 16mb cards).

This is why I still play the game - few others come close to the outstanding beauty of the worlds - and it's a shame that Activision doesn't take advantage of all the exisitng improvements the BZCP has made over these years.  1.3 is a work of art as is G66 2.0.

Today's cards and processors reveal what few people had the opportunity to see in 1997- Stunning skies, objects, and effects.  And system memory increases permit even more creativity based upon the original concepts.

Back to the beer and I apologize if my suggestions caused angst  

[ScarleTomato]

although i dont know if the majority of these ideas will go very far, reading this post gave me an idea, what if you could set objects as navs, i use nav for sending scavs to pools but i usually have to go back there to actually get them on the pool. what if i could paint the pool so i can plant scavs on them from a distance, itd also be nice for the service bay like they did in fe, or if you're not playing multi you could paint enemy units like wingmen can do for you? again i dont know anything about programming or how much time and effort it would cost. just a suggestion

[Avatar]

Play Warcraft III.  You can designate a unit, building, spot on the ground, etc. as dropoff points and whatever you create will follow, attack, or wander over to that unit, building, or spot on the ground.  This is common in Real Time Strategy (RTS) games, where it's not in First Person Shooters (FPS).

Many of the more advanced 'features' asked for in BZ2 by one type of player (RTS) are considered useless or worse, a detriment to gameplay, by the other type of player (FPS).  And vice versa...

In trying to make an FPS/RTS hybrid a lot of what's taken for granted in one style of play has to be sacrificed to make it fun for the other style of play.  Rather than give you an RTS that allows you to 'jump' into the body of a single unit for fighting, BZ2 gives you an FPS with RTS tools and overtones.  

Personally I think that's a lot better setup, and I'm more of an RTS player.  It's better to expand on FPS than allow you to narrow your focus in an RTS...

I'm all out of capital letters now...



-Av-