scion turret price change...

[SquareEyes]

I'm more of the ISDF faction than the Scion but I do play as Scion now & then 4 a break & I think cheeper turrets not such a bad idea. The reason being is that it takes the deploying on & holding of two pools 2 build Scion heavy defences which can put Scion at a serious disadvantage.

[IceWendigo]

I agree testing is the first priority {both ISDF and Scion}. (it was just a idea thrown around for later just in case, it has not been thought of at all [raw dough, not even half-baked ]

[DarkFox]

I'm in the scion camp very strongly, and I think 40-scrap guardians are a badd idea.
Just in case the 'camp' we're in makes any difference, which it shouldn't.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

to be honest i think that given the scions 40 scrap turrets (which are far *far* more powerful than ISDF equivelant, at any equal-tech stage of the game) is a mistake that screams of people not really understanding the advaned stratergies that go on in BZII, 1.2 or 1.3 reguardless. In the rev.c development the idea of reducing the cost of a scion turret to 40 was not even considered, it was such an , excuse the lack of a better term, obviously bad idea that it became something everyone agreed with silently. At which point we went on to more important things.

I say scion turrets should stay as they *were* and some vet isdf fight some expert scion players for quite a few games.

I also reiterate the concept of cut-pasteing all the modifications made in FE as well. many of the damage and properties of the weapons was tested in such a way that the abilty of the ships to move should not nessesarily make such a difference.

[SilverB1rd]

I would suggest leaving the bulk of FE changes in FE.


I played a game last night as scion and tried building lots of turrets and as soon as the isdf made it past basic scout in the tech tree all my turrets droped like flys even groups of turrets. I would have needed two upgraded pools and building turrets exclusivly to replace them fast enough.

One thing I will say though is before they made it past basic scouts the turrets where actually able to hold their own when in groups. which is a vast inprovment over 1.2

[Zero Angel]

I thought the point of scion turrets was just to protect your base while you race to get a base spire up before upgrading and spamming scavs to collect all that loose you get from teaming up on those expensive tanks.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Indeed, and thus it is revield that those who are 'testing' the scions are not actually as experienced with them as lets say they are with the ISDF. Thus giveing an unbalenced opinion on how to modify them.

Inculding FE stuff will save you alot of time, and will fix alot of problems that you may not even know about. Its not a mirical cure, but its a damned good start IMOH.

I am looking forward to see how you fair up against dark fox once he has gotten used to 1.3 fully (assuming he has not already).

[DarkFox]

Don't forget many of us were in the beta hemp. I've been used to 1.3 all along the dev cycle. I don't really think serious matches at this stage would be fair until everyone had gotten used to it.

[Sonic]

I think its fair for the Scions turrets to be 40.  The ion gun may be more powerful on non-armor units but it isn't very effective on armored units plus it has a large miss ration.  Aka the bullets spay out unlike mini.  Upgrading to Guas also doesn't prove that effective due to the high reload time and it does less damage than chain per second assuming it hits at all.

But I agree we should give it alot more testing before we try anything on it.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Another factor that should be in the minds of the testers is that the scions are ment to be weak early game. The turrets should not be 'equal'.

[DarkFox]

it's rare that turrets are firing at heavy armoured units, so the lack of heavy armour damage of iongun doesn't come into things too much. Furthermore the gauss gun may be less powerful than chain, but chain in a turret has a range of only 120m, which is easy to outrange with something as simple as a chaingun, quill etc. Gauss, OTOH, has a range of 190m, which is huge for a turret, meaning it usually does at least as much damage as chain against an approaching scav/tank, and cannot be outranged, even by AI mbikes or tag.

To put the icing on the cake the guardian has more health.

[Weevil]

You sure about those values? Or are those changes in 1.3 I didn't notice yet (didn't have time to play it for more than a few hours though) ?
I thought it was 160m for assault chain and 170 or 175 for assault gauss... ?!
Oh, and @ Phoenix-Flame etc. : What the hell 'when you have no pools left, the game is lost'  - That's one more thing about vets of nowadays: their games never reach a state of game where a base on it's own can endure for a few minutes....    Guess that's another reason why many don't like 1.3 . I've often had that situation, that I had lost all pools but lots of scavs roaming around, collecting TONS of loose left from half a base and enemy assault forces and occasionally also the need to set turrets (ISDF, I mean, of course) back to mini in order to be able to pump some out.

The best example for how a game can be won once on zero pools is a game I played vs Fired-Up more than a year ago that I won't forget so soon: 1on1; It lasted for more than 220 minutes (!) and I was rather topsides for more than the first 190 minutes, and had him on 0-2 pools most of the time. But I just didn't manage to get his base smashed, and once, about minute 195, when I wasn't watching for a few seconds (preparing the next big attack), he increased his pools count from 1 to 5 within less than a minute (rush on the pools with mainly turrets) . After another 25 minutes, my base was crushed and I finally lost a game I had assumed to win within the next few minutes for about three hours ^^

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

*sigh*

I think I am in love with this game.

[ReCoN]

LOL Speedy, Its a wonder DF ever gets a chance to sit down with your lips on his ass 24/7.

Every post I read of yours has something wonderful to say about him...

NP, just amusing.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Firstly, im not speedy, secondly, he rocks. This is not 'kissing arse', its stating a fact. It is something i have learned though experience and observation of him tear though even hardened vets with relative ease.

As far as im concerned, his opinions on scions have more weight than anyone else encountered. In the same way as far as im concerned, the world is round, not flat. Am i kissing christopher columbus's arse by saying that the world is round? no.