Scion Rights!

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

u forgetting 1 big factor.... warp... chances to hit with blast is preaty low against scouts... more to add that the scouts can rainbow and what? 5 shots will kill a msl scout? 1 hover run u can hit 3 times... then u can 'chase' the msl scout with np while maybe 2 tanks will hit you...

most likely they wont be in team of 4...

sure, head to head isdf will win, thats where brains and thinking comes in

[DarkFox]

u forgetting 1 big factor.... warp... chances to hit with blast is preaty low against scouts... more to add that the scouts can rainbow

Doesn't make sense. I'm not forgetting warp at all - if the shadowers are coming in, the scouts have to dodge in a single direction, in which case they *will* get hit by every blast a good player sends their way. If they wobble on the spot the shadowers are great anti-warp weapons, since they only use ammo if they've locked on successfully, in which case hey'll cut right through warp, because they track their opponent in the network world, rather than the graphics world.
As for arc killing - shadowers are just about the most effective Anti-air weapon in the game, closely followed by blast. I'm not forgetting it at ALL. Scion scouts are crap at arcing due to their slow pitch speed, and the ISDF team all have powerful anti-air weaponry.

As for the notion that a scion scouts can chase a missile scout - rubbsih. First of all, the missile scout is 200m away from the scion scouts, and if it has a good pilot, it will stay that distance. Second, the missile scout is just as fast as the scion scout.. once again that slow pitch speed makes the scion scout sluggish.


Naa, I've not forgotten anything... If you're using scion scouts against me, I can win all the fights just by mixing a single missile scout in with my squad.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

shads, anti-air? u gotta be jk... when i hover the most deadly thing will be laser scout, which absro disabled, i *never* get hit by shads in the air, unless im going in 1 direction or staying above a certien point...

what you dont do with rainbow, the chances to getting hit by shads while rainbowing is almost zero chance to hit
u can get a lock, doesnt mean you'll hit

and you dodge few shads, then go to other side... ull warp like ***
besides, what happend to the scion team? only 1 scout vs army of isdf?
more to add, if ur smart u wont stay on ground... ull run the side by a hill and start doing weird circles in air making almost ever shad to miss and hard for blast tanks to hit, and you got 175 range , so ull most likely will be able to hit everything...

scout speed is WAY better then msl scout, unless the msl scout stays in base its dead... why do you think msl scouts arent being used vs isdf?

they do nice dmg, but they die so quicky... because there is no other weapon that does as nice dmg as shads to scion scouts people are using msl scouts, not vs scouts though, mostly vs wariors


the msl scout can be 200m away, but scion scout going 25 m closer can hit... and its not 2 hard to get 25m closer to msl scout - comparing the speeds espicely if the msl scout going backwards to still be able to shoot

[DarkFox]

besides, what happend to the scion team? only 1 scout vs army of isdf?

Pay attention to my posts before knocking them, please. Go and re-read.

SCOUT AGILITY:
Re: All your talk of rainbowing and spinning in circles in the air. I can't *believe* you're saying this PF... I know why you are though... you play about 95% as isdf, and are obviously assuming scion scouts have the airborne agility of ISDF scouts. Newsflash - they don't.

SHADOWERS FOR ANTI-AIR:
Yes, you can dodge shadowers in the air - but as I said in my post, you have to move in one direction unless you're in a mortar bike or ISDF scout. Moving in one direction lets the tanks hit you with blast. Furthermore, yes, I regard shadowers as great anti-air. The reason for this is that shadowers will travel 800m until they hit something. When there's no ground for them to hit, they keep doing large circles until they hit you. Effectively, being airborne gives shadowers 2-3 chances to hit you, rather than the normal 1.

ARC CANNONS VS BLAST:
Yes, you are hitting them for 212 damage/second and they're only hitting you for 150 damage/second... but since the sabres have over 3 times as much health as scion scouts, the only way scions can win is by wobbling around a lot, whether in the air or on the ground.... Which gets you hit by shadowers.

LASER SCOUT IS THE THING YOU FEAR WHILE ARCING:
Saying you fear laser the most while flying is completely daft too. What about blast? Why don't you fear that? Are you used to playing against players that are so crap they run out of ammo before getting 4 hits on your airborne, shadower dodging scout?

BOTTOM LINE:
I don't buy it one bit. Play against a good team who know their strategy, and you'll find tanks+shadower have the odds in their favour when fighting a team of scion scouts. I'm not saying it's easy for the isdf, it certainly isn't, but the odds are *just* in their favour.
Now if the SCION commander mixes his units a little, then the dogfights are perfectly fair.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

heh, more like 80% of my games are isdf, and i love scion scouts agilty... and i think fly better in scions scouts rather then isdf scouts

shads: they just hit the ground once ur done rainbowing making none hits exept maybe 1 if launched right exactly when the scout is busy flipping over on groundtouch

we're talking about 1.3 - so scouts cant just hover forever... incase of hover forever the shads will hit, but vets wont hover forever with shads on their ass


ARC vs BLAST:
Yes, you are hitting them for 212 damage/second and they're only hitting you for 150 damage/second... but since the sabres have over 3 times as much health as scion scouts, the only way scions can win is by wobbling around a lot, whether in the air or on the ground.... Which gets you hit by shads

thats on the paper....
in air u wont get hit by shads, and blast will miss quite alot, either because some cant shoot in air that well, or because of warping


laser scouts:
this accutly not about being scions..
when i hover with my chain scout the thing i fear most is a laser scout 50m near me starting to shoot me, not many people do that, but once i get myself laser i can promise you my base is well defended vs hovers, and tanks, its much harder to look up + some even shad from 200m in the air... (i think its lame but w/e..)in that case - blast cant reach them while with laser i catch up to them in no time

[DarkFox]

I think we should test this... name an evening where we can do some tests, perhaps in a DM map.... I'll fire shadowers, and I want to see how you dodge them in mid-air without flying in a predictable manner.
Don't worry, I'm not out to prove anything, I'm being open-minded here.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

*gets pop-corn out*

ooo! i would love to see this.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

1.3?

[DarkFox]

If you wish. I assumed you'd have more success with airborne stunts in 1.2.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

do it in 1.2 FE first, and then pb 1.3?

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

1.2 will be preaty easy, espicely since i can 'play' in air

ill have to 'unrust' for 1.3 though... but sure =)

[Dirty Rooster]

Personally I find enemies in the air easier to shadower than those
on the ground. Enemies going by walls are the hardest, mostly
the missile hits the wall.

Scion human-scouts are the hardest thing in the game for me to hit with blast. This has a lot to do with my setup,
56k modem connection, plus the horribleness of not being able to predict
AT ALL the real position of small moving units in 1.3 public1. Tested.

In 1.2 the cmdr usually doesn't pass out msl scouts unless requested.
I find them absolutely vital in ISDF v Scion games, they lock on so well
against scouts and warriors, and backed up by Sabres they can swing
a fight in ISDF favour many times.

Anti-air : in 1.2 a laser scout is my weapon of choice in a base like
HiLo with lots of high walls to get up there quickly. Without the fast
launch of high walls I'd say shads and blast are best anti-air
from the ground.

From the many perspectives of Bz2, both Foxy and Booby are
perfectly correct.
I don't see them agreeing about that, but that's the joy of it.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

i think we both agree we both knows tons about the game and its tactics
but i think the more opnions the better...

the more opnions --> more stratgries...

i accutly prefer my laser scout in quarry-like map.. i go stright from the ground up - i dont use walls... i acccutly hate the walls in hilo with my laser scout =P they push me back down if im going stright from the ground....

[APCs r evil]

Scion scouts are crap at arcing due to their slow pitch speed.

Why is the pitch speed so low?

[DarkFox]

It's the speed at which your nose can move up or down (NOT your crosshair, your ship). Funnily enough, the value for the ISDF scout nose moving down is slower than the value for the scion scout, but the ISDF scout's nose-up value is twice as high as the drones.
This leads me to believe that perhaps the 'nose down' speed in the ODF works for something else, or is just ignored completely, because in the game the ISDF scout moves it's nose up *or* down about twice as quickly as the scion scout's.

Get in a game and try taking off with an ISDF scout on flat ground without using strafe... easy.
Now try it in a scion scout without using your strafe thrusters... Very very difficult.