Experiment Recycler Variant

[appel]

Bugs have existed since life began, and bugs will exist long after the human has perished.

[SilverB1rd]

The simple fix which I see happening is that side thrusters will have effectiveness falloff like the forward and reverse. AKA you ain't staying in the air forever bub, but at the same time you can make ship move as fast and agile as you want it two on the ground.

[Fried]

I like it and i think it's a great idea , it was nice to have some big air dogfights in 1.3 and having it as a server option i really cant see what the problem is.

I asked on several occasions if it was possible to make a new unit that could hover or fly like a 1.2 scout in 1.3 after the bug was squashed, seems it is.

If as stated the original bug in 1.2 that allowed hover was squashed then surely this "server" option should stay.

[Red Devil]

I'd just like to see their engines overheat from the strain and blow up.

"Look!  I'm hoverBOOM!"  That'd cure it real fast.  

[Fried]

Yeh sure it'd cure it, and bz2 would become another run of the mill boring game and many would either play 1.2 or the 1.3 that is out now or indeed something new.

I like the guys i play strats against, we have some serious fun, we do not base rush or base hover but we do have some crazy loop the loop insane dogfights that are just impossible to do in stock 1.3, now i also know many others also play in this style as they have been doing so for over 5 years now.
Not everyone likes to have a 3 hr mpi fighting against a predictable ai team. Though i must admit that i do on occasion when nobody else is available for me to try to outfox.

[Sonic]

I don't see why people aren't taking the "Anti-Hovering" code as a challange.  BZ2 despite being a fiction came is based on its own rules.  Inf Hovering was breaking the law of gravity which is a bug.  Now that doesn't ruin your fun at all imo.  In dog fights using gravity to your advantage can create fun tatics.  Why not try this before saying "I want my hover back".

[MowerMan]

Sonic, the flying was not breaking the law of gravity one bit.  You don't know a single thing about physics, and you have just proved it.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

what the HELL is wrong with hovering??!?
no1 so far gave a good reason!!

its a bug?
well its fun!! and TONS of games has bugs that are beeing kept because they support the cause of the game, to have fun

game is made to hf.. not to be realstic and not to be perfact!
so stop thinking all realstic and perfact and bugs and start thinking about what will be fun!!

i do not find ANY way hovering killing the fun because if u just improve the defense that ppl wont be able to hover kill bases like its being done in 1.2 then np...
hovering is fun for those who know how to do it. hovering is not fun for those who doesnt know how because 1. it killed their bases (i said the soultion...)
and 2. because they are getting owned in fights by it? (maybe that?)
well 2 bad.. go in ET with eliets and get 3 headshots and get owned, learn to do it yourself and learn to counter... then every1 will hf instead of taking the fun of those who spent time and power to do this and who will be happy if u take it away? no1... it'll go back before it strated and no1 thought about it so no "boost" to fun like what hover brings

hover = fun
game is made for fun

[Sonic]

Sonic, the flying was not breaking the law of gravity one bit.  You don't know a single thing about physics, and you have just proved it.

Inf Hovering was breaking the law of gravity when assuming commen sense of the technology the game went.  The hover Tanks/Scouts and so forth used a force to push them self off the ground to a certain point like 5m or so.  When the tank is in the air it no longer has something to push off of thus gravity should take effect.  The thrusters on the tank (strafe, reverse, foward) are not powerful enough to hold a tank in the air inf time.  If they were, your jump thrusters could take you out of orbit!  It could slow the decent but NOT hold it there forever.  This is the generall commen sense that was build around the game.

[BZZERKER]

Tell you what. The day one of these does a nose down hover with no support of any kind, I'll join your cause. Until then I like 1.3 the way it is.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

put it on the moon and it probably can

[stinky]

Sorry to get all physics again, but I'm afraid one of those won't be able to nose down hover on the moon - seeing as the moon has no gas particles to provide a reaction force on the craft's rotating blades. A hovercraft won't work in a vacuum environment like the moon.

[Risa]

It is a solution for both parties, hosts can set hovering on/off in a matter of speaking, so what's the big deal with it?

If its a bug wich will be fun squashing wait till you see its friends !

...

What is the problem? Frankly, when I usually play a game like this, I dont give a wooden nickel about what the creators of the game think about bugs in the game, I care about the gaming experiance... Some people want none-hover, some want with hover, and seeing it is now possible to set hover on/off everyone is happy right? So whats the problem? Who cares if GSH likes it? The gamers like it, thats what making a game is all about (unless it has a deeper meaning, read my thread)..

quote from Nathans web site:

"A special note: one of the bugs fixed is the infinite flying bug present in BZ2 1.0 - 1.2. This was removed because it is considered to be a bug by those of us who worked on BZ2 from the beginning. It is not due to complaints from "newbies" or the like. Certain people certainly feel strongly about this. Fine. Your feelings are not an argument. Whining about this will not change anything-- we've heard such complaints for years, and your comments will only serve to harden our resolve in this. If you still think you must comment, see here."


I was just wondering, has bz2 a special meaning, is it supposed to give a message out to the world? Or is it a 'work of my life', that everything has to be perfect?

I get the feeling that the people who worked on the patch cared too much about the original intention (deeper meanings?) of the game, rather than caring about the gaming experiance..

(...)

Is this (bz2) about the fun of the (hardcore) players, or the fun of people who play far less/not??

you tell me

Some parts of the game are a certain way to give the game it's 'flavor'.  'Infinite Hovering' was never an intended use of the Tanks.  Mods can give you it back (pretty much) if it's something you absolutely can't live without, but it's not part of the basics of the game and never was intended to be...

Mods can give it back, well, isn't that JUST what the new rec is? Its a modifcication of the 1.3 rec, and it puts hovering back in, its a MOD, I dont see no problem with it

At least flying didn't render many units useless like skiing did in Tribes, but the Tribes devs didn't want to remove something that was never intended, because the community liked it.

At least here the devs listen to players

Point is, who is this game made for? Gamers probably! And, if gamers would like to have something, wich (with the experimental rec) can be turned on/off by server, whats the big deal? Its about the gaming, it's not supposed to bring a message to the outer world, so it doesn't have to be perfect (thats my opinion)

I mean if you dotn want to hover, use a default 1.3 rec, if you do, use the new one, its all about the gamers, don't think many people will come into this game, its too old for that, so I would try to keep the current group in (or am I missing something here?)

But maybe some people would just want a certain group of gamers to find another game or something? It doesnt have to be 'my way or the highway'!

^ = my opinion


(original thread found here.)

thanks for your time

[aougli]

I don't understand why people want realism in BZ2's highly imaginative world.  Still, hopefully some 40 year old technology with a proven track record can demonstrate the realism of near supersonic aircraft that can hover and shoot other aircraft and stuff on the ground.

"The combined "thrusts" enable the Harrier to either hover or fly normally depending on the position of the nozzles which can be rotated in unison along the longitudinal axis anywhere from straight aft for forward flight to a little forward of straight down for hover. Nozzle positions are controlled by a single lever near the throttle. To control the aircraft in the hover mode and thus going too slowly for normal flap, elevator and rudder surfaces to be operable, a reaction control system cuts in which enables high pressure bleed air to be routed to exhaust ducts at the wing tips, nose and tail called "puffers" or "puff pipes".

When the pilot moves the stick forward, the puffer under the tail emits air causing the nose to go down; and when he pulls it back, the puffer under the nose emits air causing the nose to go up. Similarly, side-to-side movement of the stick operates the puffers at the wing tips (inversely of course) causing the plane to roll; and puffers at the tail operated by the rudder pedals, blow air sideways to control "yaw". As far as the pilot is concerned, the controls continue to operate normally."





doing its hover thing 543KB mpeg (use: right click -> save target as)

Operational behaviour

technical graphical analysis of vortices

Pilot's testimony about low level flying and hovering  

In my view, this real world evidence does not provide any force either way as to how flying vehicles should behave in BZ2, but it might be of interest to those with an interest in some realism in BZ2.

[Risa]

These bz2 vehicles are not of the modern age, thus cannot be explained by it.. 200 years ago, did they think they would go into outer space, or have supersonic aircraft, or explore the deepest oceans in super subs?

We cannot predict what future vehicles will do...

Furthermore I'd like to bring up this thread as it holds perfect arguments (dont know if its still up on these forums)